Transcript of conversation for those that cannot watch it , rona dougall started by saying gordon cree interviewing fiona cruikshank head of operations of prisons , about the very SMALL number of transwoman in prison
Gordon Cree : why would it be that someone that is biologically male and who has been convicted of rape , would be taken to a womans prison?
Fiona Cruikshank: So any transgender person who is admitted into custody, is admitted into the establishment that matches their identified gender, that they were living in within the community.
GC: so at the moment does the prison service look for a gender recognition certificate or is it just how the prisoner chooses how to identify themselves?
FC : It's how they choose to identify and how they have been living in the community.
GC: Do u understand why people will be concerned about that , particularly in the case of sex offenders?
FC: Absolutely , however there is a robust risk assessment process , that the prison service will go thru. So just because someone has been admitted into a particular prison does not mean that will be their prison of allocation following that risk assessment .
GC: So essentially once the risk assessment has taken place , what factors are looked at there?
FC: So em , we consider a number of factors , so we have to balance the welfare , the needs and the rights of the individual themself, as well as the welfare and safety of others around them.
Em , so shortly after admission we will conduct a multi disciplinary case conference and em carry out a risk assessment.
So factors we consider are the identified gender of the individual, how they were living in the community , WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL THEMSELVES WANT TO BE PLACED. We will also consider criminal history .
So that will look at their index offence , their previous convictions and we will take into considerations any risk factors that may pose a threat to individuals of a particular gender, we will also consider any pre sentencing reports that are available , and again look at the risk factors , and any particular groups that may be at risk.
Em, we will also consider the mental health of the individual and if their mental health will be exarcerbated or negatively impacted if placed within a particular area, em and we will consider the safety of the individual themself, so have they been the subject of any gender based violence .
GC: Could it every be the case that a biological male , who is choosing to identify as a woman and it appears in some cases that all it takes , them choosing to , that has used their penis to rape a woman , could ever be in a situation where they come into contact with female prisoners in the prison system , could that happen ?
FC: em It could , but only following a robust risk assessment , em so if we feel someone poses a particular risk , then we have the opportuniry to keep them seperate from the general population , until that risk assessment is done.
If the decision is then made to integrate into the main stream and associate with OTHER woman , then that would be done in a very slow and staged process .It would be monitored and supervised very closely and would be reviewed regularly.
GC: Back in 2019 when the concerns were raised about the way transgender prisoners were being placed in womans prisons , stv was told by scottish prison service that the policy and the way it happens was being reviewed. Has that review taken place , have things changed in that time or are we using the same guidance ?
FC: The em ,gender reassignment policy has been reviewed and its just going thru the final stages at the moment , before thats then published.
GC: I guess to some extend , a lot of these decisions are about how you manage sex offenders in the prison system , rather than it being specifically about transgender people.
FC: I can't speak about individual cases , but when we look at someones criminal history in terms of index offence and previous convictions, then if they have been convicted of a sex offence and previous convictions , then if they have been convicted of a sex offence, and there are obvious risks associated with that , that will be taken into consideration during the risk assessment .
GC: Does that mean they would stay in isolation or does it mean they would go into a male prison
FC: em, each case would be decided on an individual basis , based on the specific risks to the individual and from that individual .