GC Feminists- what do you want to achieve?

[Faffertea]

I posted this on the David Blunkett thread but since I watched the clip of him I have been mulling over what he said, and the then Labour government’s role of bringing in the GRA and it has lead me to really think about my own position and what I want the end point of this to be. It’s sort of crystallised into the following…

The thing that bothers me is that Labour brought in the GRA with no consideration for women. Wasn’t DB part of the upper echelons of Labour at the time?

I can’t help but feel that for all his welcome talk today DB was presumably happy enough with the original GRA not to resign over it so does he really mean ‘women’s equality above all else’ or does he mean ‘women’s equality above else except for the small number of men we (politicians) feel are ok to be included in women’s spaces’? Are we really just back to males can be women but only the right sort of males.

And I don’t know about anyone else but for me that is not acceptable. It has to be no males in female spaces. No exceptions. No ‘but these males are harmless’ or ‘these males have radically changed their bodies and are distressed by being males’ or ‘these males have paperwork that says they’re really female’ so they’re ok.

No one who is male, in any shape, form or identity in female spaces at all. For those males unhappy with that they need to find an alternative that doesn’t involve co-opting female spaces.

*in sex discrimination

I’m going to guess that when that legislation was brought in it was assumed it would be a tiny handful of people that would be in need of it. Obviously now we are awash with trans identified individuals and Pandora’s box has exploded.

What I want is safeguarding of young people being a priority. I don’t think we should be giving prepubescent children the right to take life altering hormones. I just don’t think they have the capacity to know what they are agreeing to. Decisions I made at 14 are decisions I wish I hadn’t made thirty five years later. Some of my decisions still impact me now and I wonder why the bell my parents allowed it. I tmi k there’s going to be a shit ton of adults suing the NHS I’d the future and it’s going to cost us four times. Once for the original surgeries, once for the life long medication, once for the detransitional surgery and then finally got the compensation when they sue.

id also like there to be a third space in all women’s spaces. I know that is not what trans identified individuals want as the whole idea is to ‘pass’. But that’s what I’d like. Plus sports to have a third space too so only biological women compete against biological women.

IANAL but I think discriminating against someone because of sex stereotypes (e.g., because they don't adhere to them, or, because you assume that they will) is included in sex discrimination.

Agree with others. I will now no longer compromise on any way shape or form. No males should have any access to female spaces. Provision should be made in law to force providers to provide single sex spaces. The GRA should be repealed.

Oh yes, amendment of Cambridge dictionary definition of woman.
(Piers Morgan on a roll right now on Talk Tv).

What really pissed me off is this from another thread written by another Labour person:

While our society has for decades agreed to require women and girls to make limited accommodations in the public sphere for all those who are experiencing gender dysphoria, in order to facilitate an accessible public realm,

agreed to require women and girls to make limited accommodations - this is the problem, how dare they do this? No-one asked women whether they wanted to do this. Why weren't men asked to make accommodations for these males? We all know why - it is because this is what men want.

The GRA is an insulting, offensive Act that reduces women and girls to ridiculous sexist stereotypes, diminishes women, it's a fucking disgrace and has to go. It obfuscates between sex and gender and is an absolute dogs dinner. Why is someone changing the sex marker on ANY document when they are claiming to change gender? It's nonsense.

I will never forgive Labour for doing this, furthermore, it's a Male Rights Act it would never in a million years even merit consideration if it was females asking for these rights over men and the men made damn sure they protected their privileges when enacting it, see the exception for hereditary titles and estates. The whole Act was done for and on behalf of men and women were just expected to suck it up and submit.

The GRA needs to go. No-one should be able to falsify a Birth Certificate, a legal document that states FACTS and then hide it with a super secret piece of paper that can't be asked about.

If sex can be altered on a Birth Certificate why not Place of Birth? Why can't those who want to come to the UK and claim British Citizenship and a British Passport not just change their place of birth on the claim that they have always felt British?

Remove all references to gender or gender reassignment in the EqA, protections to be based on the characteristic of sex, birth sex only.

Single sex spaces and services to be mandatory, and to be just that SINGLE SEX, and sex to be the sex a person was born. A separate additional third option to be made available alongside where practicable and necessary.

People can dress as they please within already accepted limits and requirements, change their name to whatever they want, adults can make any body modifications they wish and not be discriminated against for doing so but their sex remains as the sex they are born and they access the spaces, services and facilities based on their sex, not their presentation or belief about themselves.

if it bothers trans people to have the disfavoured sex on passports and driving licences

Have an additional box - Trans Identifying Female (transman) or Trans Identifying Male (transwoman) and the rest of us just leave it blank. No GRC necessary, no alterations to Birth Certificates, the sex marker remains unchanged.

If we could have all that, and it was made clear that the Equality Act refers to biological sex, then I think it would no longer bother me if someone gets a piece of paper to recognise their new "gender", because we'd be in the state we should always have been in, where someone's gender is no business of the law. The law shouldn't be concerned with stuff in someone's head that's unverifiable.
It doesn't bother me too much if we keep the EA's "gender reassignment", because it could be seen as just a kind of religion, and seen as part of a generic "don't discriminate against people for stuff you disapprove of but that is irrelevant", which I think is good to have.

100%.

Couldn't give a fuck what anyone's 'gender' is, nor their star sign, nor their religion.

I'd like to see the use of the word 'gender' abolished except in grammatical discussions. Actual human beings have sexes which they cannot change, but which do not in any way dictate what they wear, what they do, who they marry/shag.

Gender does not exist. I'd like politicians to stop wasting money and wrecking lives pretending that it does.

I know that isn't going to happen, but the question was what do I want.

This. No more gender nonsense

I don't think I have a gender, so should not be a default of that at all. There is no need for these documents to choose a very small sample of potential identity factors and start stating them.

I want preservation of same sex spaces.
Repeal the GRA.
I want women defined in uk law as adult human female.
I want it recognised in law that sex is immutable and important in law.

I ultimately want to end sex based violence, the Nordic model, and to create a society where people living in poverty isn't a vital part of the overall equation.

The same thing every thinking feminist from the beginning of time wants, to destroy the concept gender, to burn it to ashes. To establish the only material difference between the sexes is our sexed body and the implications of that. There is nothing else between us, not our intelligence, abilities, competencies, not our wants or needs or possibilities. Telling me, a woman is a look or a feeling or behaviour, is utterly insulting.

Excellently put.

I caught the end of Yvette Cooper on the Today programme this morning and Nick Robinson asked her specifically about rapists identifying as women in women’s prisons. Her answer was they shouldn’t be and the EA provides provision for them not to be. She talked about ‘biological women’ so perhaps she hasn’t read about Baroness Haldane’s judgement.

It seems that amongst senior Labour politicians/ Labour old guard those prepared to say no to self ID still think males in some female spaces is ok.

So we’re back to female people only being allowed space away from people if it’s ‘a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim’ not because sometimes it’s what we want and we have the right to do that without explanation.

To establish the only material difference between the sexes is our sexed body and the implications of that. There is nothing else between us, not our intelligence, abilities, competencies, not our wants or needs or possibilities.

I don't think we CAN dismiss gender, in the sense of the effect of our bodies on our life experience. It's often so damn obvious even from words on a screen that someone is male or female. It permeates so much of our behaviour beyond the bought-in trappings. (Maybe you were including that under 'implications', though.)

I agree with everthing PPs have said about no male persons whatsoever in womens' spaces, sport, prizes, everything .
But a thing that concerns me greatly is the ability to change your birth certificate, an important historical document as well as a personal one. Your original birth certificate is erased.

This has ramifications beyond someone's own feelings and makes a lie out of biological fact.

It's often so damn obvious even from words on a screen that someone is male or female.

You reckon? How?

mine too

Sums it up brilliantly.

Repeal the GRA.

Get this nonsense out of schools.

Perfectly put.

Repeal the GRA, our politicians have proved they cannot be trusted to protect women's rights.

No males in women's spaces or sports under any circumstances.

No gender ideology being taught as fact in schools.

Mental health support for gender distressed/confused children instead of potentially irreversible medical intervention.

A return to accepting the truth is not hateful and should not be unsayable.

And genderwoo out of schools.

^^This is what I want most of all.

That and if I had a magic wand no more talking about 1% of the populations personal private feelings 99% of the time

All of the necessary stuff above, PLUS

Get rid of Queer Theory courses in universities, and replace them with mandatory (second wave Feminist) Women's Studies..