Defence of feminism by Jean Hatchet

[BellaAmorosa]

thecritic.co.uk/announcing-feminism-is-dead-wont-kill-it/

Interesting article, made me re-examine some of my criticism of other feminists.

That article omits to mention the reason KJK stopped calling herself a feminist which - at least as I understand it - was because so many women who didn't like her brand of activism were attacking her for not being feminist. Personally I think that was a mistake on JKJ's part and that she has as much right to the label as the women who criticise her. But I can understand why she did it. Leaving it out from the article comes across as a tad disingenuous.

Yay, someone interacted!
@Floisme
Fair enough if that's the case about KJK. However for me the main takeaway from the article was that I shouldn't fall into the trap of purity spirals of any kind.

Oh and to be clear, I didn't post this because JH mentione KJK - that was an interesting tidbit. For me the part that made me think was about academic feminists. So often it often comes down to who specifically you are talking about. It reminded me a bit of when (right wing, usually) men say "where are all the feminists/feminists enabled this whole thing" and you have to admit some did X and some feminists said Y, but other feminists did and said A and B. You never get the whole story if you look at feminists in labelled groups rather than individually. I mean, Dr Stock and Judith Butler are both academic feminists, technically. I hope I'm making myself understood. I just thought I might have been a bit harsh on some groups of feminists, basically.

I can't open the article on the app but wasn't the author one of the first to stab KJK in the back while she flying to the US? Not my grudge to hold but I can't stand the woman

Just reading now; (kjk) I didn’t know anything! I couldn’t have raised the alarm if I wanted to!” She claims women didn’t tell her about any of it, and that they therefore failed to prevent the situation we are now in

She's recently described somewhere (Julian Vigo?) being thoroughly educated here on mumsnet, (possibly by Dittany? Iirc) so I'm not sure about that assertion.

But I would also add that many women, myself included and I know Aja also said this in the AHF documentary, that feminism was won.

Unless you are working directly with abused women it is easy to keep reading the Guardian and going to work/ raising kids and assuming everything was ok. I knew not all men could be trusted, but as a whole feminism had achieved it's aims.

I do agree with JB that nothing has really changed.

My personal opinion is that the internet has enabled women to learn more about all types of abuse (and mn is absolutely a part of this in the U.K.) but it has also enabled abusers to be more abusive in many situations. And spread/ enabled incels, andrew tate etc.

I can't stand her either. Her form for drama and in fighting goes back years ( including on here, after Man Friday fell apart)
And yes, I appreciate complex situations, two sides etc etc but......
If it had been one incident eg not wanting to go to the USA with KJM and JL fair enough, but it's not.

She would like to be a leader of women, I think. She'll never be that.

This wasn't meant to be a KJK thread - I honestly wasn't trying to get involved in that discussion and will ask for this to be deleted because I can see it's going to be all about that. Probably my naivete and ignorance in not knowing who exactly was involved in the head girls v KJK spat.
My apologies to @Floisme , @WarriorN and @Coyoacan and thanks for contributing.

Ooh and you too, @KatMcBundleFace

Shame that her points revolve around criticising other groups of women (and KJK in particular)
The language used : scathing attitude. performative nod to feminist successes, a sneering wave of the hand in the direction of feminist women, women moan, They complain, declare, somewhat peevishly,

I know that's all out of context but all that's from one paragraph. Such a shame - I've had a lot of respect for Jean and contributed to her fundraisers on numerous occasions Disappointing to see her continued criticism of other women.

Apparently I can't get it deleted.

Don't post any more comments on here, please, and then the thread will quietly die...

I do agree with the points JB and JH makes that this is a continuation of the same old same old. That feminists have been shouting for a long time. They definitely smelled the rats many years ago. I loved that HJ and JB discussion and them both.

The only distinction I would make in the current gender wars is that this isn't just a feminist battle.

It's a medical scandal, an ideological infection that's capturing everyone. It's damaging boys and girls. It's abusive and has many different victims. It's chillingly state sanctioned. It's also magnified 1000 fold very rapidly.

It does of course impact women and girls more, by both how men feel entitled to enter their spaces and also is so much physically and mentally worse for the girls and women who "identify" as men.

But it also involves women too (some pro transition mothers of trans children can be the most fastidious activists) and extends into a wide range of important issues in medicine, law, data etc. it's a cross party issue and a 'cross people' issue. This is how I see some women moving outside the "feminist" label in order to tackle from a different angle.

"Many women arrive at a feminist position after male violence has touched their lives. They seek help after men have hurt them and then look to how they can help other women in return."

This seems to suggest that's it's OK for some women to come to feminism late via being victims of male violence, but the article seems to argue it's not OK for other women to come to it late for other reasons, such as observing the effects of male behaviour on other women.

I knew "JH" years ago and she was not a nice person back then and as far as I can see she has not changed. She makes certain never to use her real name as she does not want her followers to be able to Google it and find out about her past.

She is clearly very jealous of KJK who has more style, charisma and chutzpah in her little finger than "JH" will ever have.

I remember JH sticking the knife into KJK early doors. And Julie Bindel calling stay at home mums 'domesticated zombies'.

I can see why women like KJK decide they're not feminists when 'proper' feminists like JH and her idol are so keen on slagging her off.

It’s six of one and half a dozen of the other. Frankly, it’s bullshit from both sides.

It was Sarah Ditum of the 'domesticated zombies' fame. Also, 'Poundshop Le Pen'. There's a talent there that might be celebrated had it not been for internal sexism and judgement of other women.

But yes, JH has a notion of herself that doesn't seem to be generally mirrored.

I think this article isn't so much an analysis of, or a rebuttal of, a differing political viewpoint, it's more an opportunity to dismiss one women (and group of women who hold a similar viewpoint).

From reading Hatchet's previous articles and tweets, I get the impression that it doesn't matter what Kellie-Jay Keen does, Hatchet will disagree with her. It's seems as though it's more than an ideological dispute or difference for Hatchet; from what l've read of her public comments she comes across as disliking Kellie on a personal level.

Hatchet may not mean to come across that way but over the last few years she's taken public potshots at KJK on Twitter, and in a couple of articles, that don’t seem to be good faith attempt at ideological discourse - to me the comments seem to play the woman, not the ball.

I think that, in fairness, The Critic should offer Keen a right of reply.

Thanks Miladee.

Agreed. She's also revealed herself to be a bit of an abusive bully.

Another newly-popular area of attack accuses “academic feminists” of too easily relinquishing “Women’s Studies” departments in favour of “Gender Studies”. It is asserted by what I will call here “Feminist-Critical” women that this was the beginning of the rise to power of transgender activists, that their genuflection to the separation of sex and gender has led to the current position where men are able to declare themselves lesbians or to access female only spaces.

How hard it must be for women like Professor Beverley Skeggs, for example, to hear that she did nothing, that women like her simply handed over the reins to the gender brigade and their demands that there be a recategorization of the word “woman”. As far back as 1995 Skeggs wrote, “Women’s Studies … is taking a kicking and we are the body bags. It is in these conditions that we will continue to fight.” Renate Klein and Diane Bell, defending Women’s Studies in 1996 wrote, “Stubbornly, defiantly, we hold on to that truth. There is such a thing as woman.”

Many women fought. They did not stay quiet as their departments were declared obsolete or too wedded to the “chastity of the word woman”. Most of the women who stocked these departments had originally arrived there from the street, from protest and radical feminist organising. They saw academia as a way to formalise such protest, a way to legitimise and advance the causes of women’s rights on a footing that would have respectability and socio-political bite. Now women are biting feminist academic women and saying that only what is said in the streets is worth hearing. It is a bizarre state of affairs.

Thank you, Jean. You express this so well.

Women's Studies departments were always vulnerable. Colleagues made jokes about us, we were denied funding, our research was not seen as real research (because it was not about men) and because we existed many lecturers decided that they did not need to include women's history or literature or the writing of wonderful women like Mary Wollstonecraft, Harriet Taylor Mill or Elizabeth Anscombe in their curricula. When the boys muscled in and colonised us with their postmodern gender studies there was little we could do. Thank you for recognising this and our history and struggles.