Sunlight

[ArabellaScott]

Remember 'No debate'?

I'd just like to take a moment to point out:

Front page BBC
Front page Telegraph
Front page Times
Front page National
Front page Daily Mail
Front page Express

(and probably other papers, too, that was my local newsstand)

Radio 4, LBC, Newsnight

Cass Report

House of Commons debate.
House of Lords debate.
MPs from all parties raising the issues, talking about women's sex based rights.

And as the Speaker said yesterday, this is just the beginning.

🌞

Agree, but much of the quality and understanding of the issues that I've heard so far on TV and radio has been pretty woeful,with lots of the tired old tropes not being robustly challenged with facts and evidence. But ye s, was fabulous to see Helen Joyce on GMB this week!

Sunlight indeed. Was just so bloody happy yesterday that this issue was being discussed in Parliament, wvey newspaper was writing about it and so many tv/radio discussing it. I didn’t hear a single TRA being able to make a point without the interviewer coming straight back with information which made the TRA look idiotic.

Best bit for me was Justin Webb on R4’s Today programme asking a correspondent words to the effect “But haven’t the supporters of this bill been saying for years that a GRC meant that in Law, a trans person must always be treated as their new gender, no exceptions. Now they’re saying the new law doesn’t affect the Equality Act”. 😂

And like mumsnet, all these people are on the journey. They start off at Terminal Be Kind, alight at Station Hang on a Minute, and arrive at destination What the Fuck are you Talking About, You Misogynistic Arse

Ain't* *that the truth! Thanks Nicola Sturgeon for waking up the nation and reaching "what the fuck" station before further detrimental to women legislation snuck in.

I thought the gc reps in the press were articulate and concise, but the missing bit (or edited!) was the clarification that this is NOT an attack on trans people, and that it is damaging for trans/LGB communities.
It's too easy to pit 'two sides' against each other, without this

'There are fears, which cannot be lightly dismissed, that this move would expose women-only services to men falsely claiming to be transgender.'

This sentence stuck out for me in a Guardian editorial article, they've been dismissing women's concerns for years but can no longer do that. Millions have seen the footage of Rosie Duffield and Miriam Cates in the House of Commons and been appalled by it.

Feeling really optimistic, instead of just crossing my fingers, that all will be well.

Full article here, also recognises that the public in general have concerns

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/the-guardian-view-on-scotlands-gender-reform-bill-understand-more-condemn-less?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

There will be tonnes of people who've supported the TRA line having to contort themselves and attempt to re-write the past to try to save face sooner rather than later.

Just going to say that comparing this situation to what Afghan women are going through makes me want to vomit. Are you willing to withdraw that post?

And before anyone starts on me, I've been on MN a long time and gender critical a long time. I hope I can keep a sense of perspective though.

I agree that the taliban comparison is unfortunate.

What has really stood out for me is the calm, articulate voices and the lack of hyperbole from GC campaigners. So proud of the women who led us here and want to applaud those who have spoken out with courage and honesty.

The one thing I have learnt from all this shit is how important free speech is, how important discussion of ideas is, and how terrible it is to silence or supress another.

Just want to thank you for the uplifting thread. With everything going on its easy to forget that even just a year ago none of what you mentioned would be possible.

We have gotten far. Lets take it to the finish line this year ladies.

And like mumsnet, all these people are on the journey. They start off at Terminal Be Kind, alight at Station Hang on a Minute, and arrive at destination What the Fuck are you Talking About, You Misogynistic Arse

I love this it's so true. So many people starting on that journey this week.I was so timid when I first got involved, so frightened of offending, now 'oh just feck off'.

As late as six months ago, I didn't even want to say the opposite of TWAW, because I thought it was abrasive and unnecessarily unkind. I felt I'd rather be a liar than be rude!

Now, I feel utterly pushed to the discourtesy, and I want to bellow it out. How dare these people attempt to convince me of a lie, every single day?

OK I won't ask that poster to withdraw that post. I'll just say that I think that post was disgusting and the poster should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

I think we can all agree that the women and girls of Afghanistan are most definitely not being kept safe by the Taliban. They have been stripped of their most basic human rights, access to education and healthcare and the means to survive without dependence on male relatives. It is abhorrent.

However, the current gender identity movement is dehumanising women (bodies with vaginas, menstruators) and subordinating women’s safety, needs and equality in society to men’s wants. We’re not out of the woods here either.

Both things can be simultaneously true. They are two sides of the same coin. I also support free speech and think we should keep dialogue open.

A link to an overheard conversation in the post office 🤔

I agree and was about to reply saying similar. In addition, looking over at countries who have lived with self id laws for some time, there are cases of gc women facing up to 3 years in prison. Their crime; referring to a biological born male as being male instead of pretending they are female because a legal piece of paper says they are.

And like mumsnet, all these people are on the journey. They start off at Terminal Be Kind, alight at Station Hang on a Minute, and arrive at destination What the Fuck are you Talking About, You Misogynistic Arse

Hell yeah @Datun That was my journey over the past 5-6 years! It wasn't even MN who got the train on the tracks, except indirectly.

I was on another forum, somebody said "There's a bunfight on a horrible bigoted thread against the most vulnerable people" so I went to look, and there I read a link about (IIRC) Brighton school guidance on compelling girls to expose their bodies to boys. I wrote something like "WTF did I just read? Surely that's a bizarre outlier?" and I got told "If you want to know more, go to MN FWR."

My journey from there was like the Shinkansen