What now in Scotland?

[Sausagenbacon]

Can I ask for clarity on this?
Am I right in thinking that the reforms to the GRA discussed last night are dead in the water?
Is it expected that Westminster and Holyrood have to meet to discuss the way forward, as some speakers said, or do Holyrood have to come up with better legislation that won't be knocked back under Section 35?

It will now go to court. All the way up to Supreme Court. Perhaps those safeguards which Lloyd Russell wotsisface talked about (while belittling a woman talking about trauma) and which Holyrood roundly rejected, are back on. And the Haldane Judgment means UK law needs clarification to show that sex means biological sex in the Equality Act.
Plus some clearer guidance on when a GRC owner can be excluded from single sex spaces.

I suspect the inclusion of trans so-called "conversion therapy " is the quid pro quo to appease the menzfeels.

My understanding it’s in the SG’s hands now what they do. The SG can either come back with reasonable amendments that Westminster are happy offer protection for women and children (but since they don’t accept that there are any safeguarding issues this seems unlikely) or they can take it to court. NS has indicated they intend to take it to court.

Sorry, can someone explain where the Supreme Court stands? Does all failed legislation go to there?

Yes, the GRR Act is dead in the water. As far as I can tell, the Scottish Government now has two options: go back to drawing board and come up with a Bill that doesn't make "modifications of the law as it applies to reserved matters", or challenge the Secretary of State's view that he has "reasonable grounds to believe would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters". It looks like Sturgeon has opted for the latter. It will be heard in the Court of Session in Edinburgh unless the Lord Advocate refers it directly to the Supreme Court.

Which will be interesting as she will be trying to do what was warned nigh on impossible regarding fraudulent applications under the Bill - disprove a belief held by someone.

No there’s a hierarchy of courts. This would probably go to JR in the first instance then to SC but I’ve read it could be referred directly to the SC in this case but I don’t know if that’s correct or not.

It's section 35 of the Scotland Act (or rather its invocation by this government in this case) that would go to the Supreme Court. Assuming either side doesn't concede beforehand.

I think it goes to Court of Session in Scotland first - Scotland's highest court. Then if either party is dissatisfied with the outcome, it would go to the Supreme Court

I suspect the inclusion of trans so-called "conversion therapy " is the quid pro quo to appease the menzfeels.

It seems that way to me too - which is a disaster. They've admitted that including gender identity in the law is much more complex and prone to unexpected side effects than sexual orientation. That's still the case. Nothing has changed. It's still bad law.

We've been fooled before with the GRA, which despite best intentions and lots of assurances that it was for a tiny number of marginalised people and wouldn't be a problem for anyone else, has proved a complete Trojan horse, and has resulted in the destruction of so many single sex spaces - as fearful people and organisations have gone not just over and above the law, but flying past in a totally different direction.

Don't let's drop our guard in the relief of the GRR bill being stopped.

Compromise doesn't mean 'if we win one, we have to let them win one too'. That's female socialisation talking.

Compromise means that we want everyone's needs to be considered and balanced. Trans people and women. And that means that if they throw 100 terrible laws at us, we have to stand firm against all 100 of the terrible laws.

Including Gender Identity in the conversion therapy is another GRA-like Trojan horse. Once it's there, it will be incredibly hard to repeal. Keep writing to MPs, keep pushing!

@JustWaking read somewhere that there may be a Tory rebellion if they try to include it. So fucking sick of relying on Tories to protect women and kids that are likely to grow up to be gay, lesbian or bisexual.

I predict this will ultimately lead to a repeal of the GRA. It's bad law, as others have said, and every win for the TRAs just pushes the insanity of this movement further into the limelight - and into the voting public's awareness. I suspect things will get more bumpy before reason and logic return to the room.

Part of that return to sanity, when it happens, must include serious reflection on how our governing bodies and our institutions became so easily captured by what amounts to a well funded, top down religious movement untethered by reality and without any public scrutiny.

For context, the Scotgov recently lost in the Supreme Court on the UN Rights of the child legislation. And in another bill on LAs.

'Judges at the Supreme Court have ruled that provisions in two bills passed by MSPs were beyond Holyrood's powers.

MSPs unanimously backed the bills - which enshrine treaties on children's rights and local government in Scots law - prior to May's Holyrood election.

However after a challenge from UK law officers, judges said the legislation could affect Westminster's ability to make laws for Scotland.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58794698

Is that automatic that it goes to the SC? That would make sense since it’s almost guaranteed to end up there anyway.

I doubt GRA will be repealed but I am hopeful of
a) clarifying via statutory instrument (not as fancy as an Act of Parliament and easier to pass) that sex in Equality Act means biological sex not legal sex
b) formal guidance issued by various relevant departments how the single sex provision operates to make it easier to keep women's refuges, prisons, maternity/miscarriage support groups and sports free from trans identified Men
c) confirmation that those deluded women who want to legally identify out of being women but yet have babies, still have maternity rights.

@Signalbox , i don't know. Given its UK law that is being disputed- section 35 Scotland Act - maybe it would go straight to SC.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64315517

Interesting opinion from a former SC judge.

Looks like a Judicial Review in the first instance.

mobile.twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1615370360504860676

Thanks @Signalbox , Judicial Review then Supreme Court, I suppose. When she loses the judicial review (assuming she gets leave to have one in the first place)

Thanks for clarification everyone.

Aye. Is this a good use of public money? Of course it fucking isn't.

I am very happy that Stergeon is taking this decision to court as it will be the last thing she does as 1st minister.
She made a massive miscalculation when she chose to use transpeople as a weapon to break up the union.
Whilst I accept that she honestly believes that she is a feminist and that twaw however belief and fact are very rarely the same thing. In her persecution Olympics identity politics addled brain she saw a perfect way to both push her personal agenda for independence and her (regressive) woke politics. This bill was a win win scenario to her way of thinking either it went through and caused administrative chaos between the UK tax system and Scottish systems proving the need for independence or it would be blocked by the UK government and she could claim Westminster interference and again claim it proves the need for independence, which is exactly what she is now doing.
This brings us to her echo chamber miscalculation. She failed to calculate the strength of feeling, shear outrage and tenacity of women in defence of our rights (should have read sun sui "when women wake mountains move") nor our ability to organise and publicly protest this regardless of the personal consequences. She thought that we would be good little women and move over for the men (be kind and all that). But we didn't and this should have given her pause for thought, it didn't. She dismissed us as old irrelevant bigots and doubled down again and again. All the time painting herself into a corner, she has spent all of her political capital to get here and when the courts comes down on the side of the UK government proving all of her lies and ending the GRR bill that 2/3 voters oppose she will have nowhere to turn.
Add to that all the sunlight that this is giving to the issue of granting transpeople extra rights means actively removing women's rights and safeguarding. The conversation then changes from poor vulnerable transpeople to why are we taking equal rights, safety and dignity away from 51% of the population so that 0.5% can feel validated.

wingsoverscotland.com/what-youre-willing-to-hear/

'...the people of Scotland overwhelmingly oppose the SNP’s dreadful gender reform plans, AND they support the UK government’s lawful intervention in the matter'

What's the timescale for all of this? When is the next General Election? Will the SNP have to set up a Crowdfunder or will they use our taxes to pay for this?

On an another aspect. Why aren't news channels publicising the fact that a 16 year old will be able to get a GRC on their 16th birthday - even Dear Kier has voiced objections to the lowering of the age part of the Bill. Labour MSP Jackie Baillie sought to get an amendment that meant the 6 month waiting/reflection period should start at 16 NOT 6 months earlier at age 15 and a half. 15 and a half?!! When most kids haven't even sat their Nat 5s. Of course this amendment was voted against. I wish this was flagged up more in the reporting. But no, let's just wheel Ellie Gomersal out again who says this is all just about a bit of admin.

I think the SG will find it hard to even come up with a compromise bill now the section 35 has put all of the concerns in writing and out in public. What might have been accepted before feels less likely now.

And the section 35 reasons explicitly and individually calls out all of the big changes that the GRR introduces

• reduced waiting period

-no diagnosis -GRC at 16

It will be really hard to get any of those agreed now

@GrrrrAReform Battle over gender reform bill veto would be a 'mistake', experts say www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11651561/Legal-battle-veto-doomed-Scottish-gender-reform-bill-mistake-legal-experts-say.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton this article should help answer most of your questions