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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer may make the Labour Party electable

155 replies

oviraptor21 · 16/01/2023 13:10

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4a822cec-9577-11ed-a130-baced48eb788?shareToken=a70de80a5b17f9807a092d10dae5bcfe

The Labour leader said: “Sex based rights matter, and we must preserve all those wins that we’ve had for women over many years and including safe spaces for women.”

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 16/01/2023 13:14

The Labour leader said: “Sex based rights matter, and we must preserve all those wins that we’ve had for women over many years and including safe spaces for women.”

Safe spaces. Not single sex spaces. Accidental use or purposeful mangling and fudging of the point?

InterestingUsernameTBC · 16/01/2023 13:18

Remember Starmer said “A woman is a female adult and, in addition to that, trans women are women, and that is not just my view that is actually the law."

barneshome · 16/01/2023 13:18

oviraptor21 · 16/01/2023 13:10

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4a822cec-9577-11ed-a130-baced48eb788?shareToken=a70de80a5b17f9807a092d10dae5bcfe

The Labour leader said: “Sex based rights matter, and we must preserve all those wins that we’ve had for women over many years and including safe spaces for women.”

Not for me
All he does is go on about trans rights etc
Never about the economy
Because he is clueless

Winniepoo · 16/01/2023 13:22

Still trotting out the 'they are often among the most abused in our society' ⛳

Justbetweenus · 16/01/2023 13:22

I’m interested in women’s rights, the economy, and politics so my radar is tuned to all three areas. And All he does is go on about trans rights etc could not be further from the reality. 🙄

nilsmousehammer · 16/01/2023 13:25

If Starmer wants to start a competition amongst the political parties for women's votes by escalating recognition of and promise of real action in manifestos then I'll gladly hold his coat. It would be good to see come the next election a recognition that women's votes are being lost hand over fist on this issue and rock solid promises of actual understanding of and addressing of issues are required. That meet TQ+ desires and women's real and actual needs, equally. Answers that work for all.

However I remember a saying where I grew up that went 'he can make his mouth say anything, that one'. I continue to trust Starmer as far as I can throw whichever aide is currently feeding him the pre planned script.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 16/01/2023 13:26

Until he corrects his previous statements about transwomen being women, in reality and in law, then every time he says 'women' he means women and some men.

He has not corrected that statement. He is not promising single sex spaces. He is not promising to safeguard women.

ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 13:29

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 16/01/2023 13:26

Until he corrects his previous statements about transwomen being women, in reality and in law, then every time he says 'women' he means women and some men.

He has not corrected that statement. He is not promising single sex spaces. He is not promising to safeguard women.

I'm in full agreement with this. He needs to row back and promise us.

nilsmousehammer · 16/01/2023 13:35

And realise that women are not bloody stupid and won't fall for a few crumbs tossed in their direction with absolutely no substance or evidence of actual thought and action behind it.

51% of the vote. Just waiting.

zen1 · 16/01/2023 13:36

Last I heard, Starmer was not able to accurately define a woman. And with many of his front bench asserting their ‘beliefs’ that men can have cervixes, I find it hard to trust anything the Labour Party says. Which is a shame since I was a pro-Corbyn member.

Floisme · 16/01/2023 13:42

I will start paying attention if Labour also commit to updating the Equality Act to clarify that biological sex is the protected characteristic (as per the Sex Matters petition). Until then this just feels like another sleight of hand.

ScrollingLeaves · 16/01/2023 14:02

If anyone - who has not yet signed this petition to update the Equality Act to make sure sex means biological sex and not sex as modified by a gender recognition certificate -

would like to nudge Kier Starmer along into clarifying who exactly the women would be in those ‘safe’ spaces?……..

Only the “99.9% of women” for whom it is all about biology? Or also, the other 0.1% he said were women too because, “It’s the law.” ………..

sign through the link below
⬇️

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

FigRollsAlly · 16/01/2023 14:03

Interesting link there to another Times article about Peter Mandelson giving informal advice to Starmer and his team. Looks like they are recognising the need to be less driven by ideology and more by pragmatism in order to be electable.

Faffertea · 16/01/2023 14:04

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 16/01/2023 13:26

Until he corrects his previous statements about transwomen being women, in reality and in law, then every time he says 'women' he means women and some men.

He has not corrected that statement. He is not promising single sex spaces. He is not promising to safeguard women.

This!

Meceme · 16/01/2023 14:10

From the man who couldn't say only women have cervixes, didn't support Rosie Duffield from disgusting bullying and will say anything if he thinks it sounds good.
He has no deeply held convictions but sways with the wind. Too little, too late.
It's a no from me.

Helleofabore · 16/01/2023 14:23

He relies on ambiguous language, so no. He is dishonest. Until someone challenges the Equality Act exemptions, he will consider males are entitled to access female single sex spaces.

Unless he comes out and says it, I don’t believe a word he says.

FOJN · 16/01/2023 14:25

Safe spaces again? Why not single sex spaces? More fudging.

KS and the Labour party can fuck off.

Fuck off is my theme for the day, my patience has expired.

scratchedbymycat · 16/01/2023 14:26

Here's a link to the question and answer as heard on LBC (opens in LBC app).

www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/london/episodes/2zGwWrA56ae1nj2hCNeDj9DKGS/?t=8573

scratchedbymycat · 16/01/2023 14:38

When things were the way they used to be, when the GRC was issued over a long period of time with proper psych evaluation, I didn't feel threatened by trans women in safe spaces. I accepted that the law saw them as women (I think Starmer is right on this) and it didn't occur to me that this was anything to fear. It's the queer theory crap + self id + proliferation of mysogeny and open link that's changed everything for me.

Is it possible Starmer is still in that mindset?

And although he talks about safe spaces, he also says that for "99.9% of women it is all about biology" and that "sex-based rights matter". I feel like I'm on the same page as that. I feel like this bit does explain what he means safe spaces really are ... biology and sex. He also says we must preserve all those wins for women. When he says women here, he is clearly meaning females.

ArabellaScott · 16/01/2023 14:41

We don't want your shitty Sex Fudge, Labour.

Clarify that a woman is a woman, not a man who says he's a woman.

Clarify 'single sex exemptions' on the basis of biological sex.

Then we can talk.

scratchedbymycat · 16/01/2023 14:42

This reply has been deleted

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nilsmousehammer · 16/01/2023 14:46

What isn't acceptable though for a man who claims to be into inclusion and equality and socialism and liberal values?

When an absolutely sincere male person with whatever degree of transition and paperwork and all the rest of it walks into a female only space some females have to walk out .

To provide that male person with additional freedoms and choices from all the provisions, some female people lose access to any provision.

The majority of these most affected, most excluded women are women from vulnerable, marginalised groups that matter to socialism. (Just not when they get in the way of certain groups of men.)

This is not ok. This has never been ok. There is now absolute entitlement and increasing numbers of men strolling into women's spaces and it's still being framed as ok. Why? Because it's only 'women' and a kind of woman that forms 99.9% of womanhood according to Starmer but apparently isn't worth the courtesy and care he's so concerned about for the 0.1% who are male.

It's never been ok. It's become increasingly not ok. Women are now being raped in prisons through this and this is apparently still ok because it makes men happier.

We ought to be burning the world down at this point! And yet we're all so ingrained in it being normal that biological women are subhuman compared to men that we're just nicely discussing it.

It is not impossible to provide answers that would work for them too: the only downside to answers that work for all is that they make men cross. Gosh, can't have that, can we?

donquixotedelamancha · 16/01/2023 15:04

I think Johnson, Truss and Sunak have made Labour electable. They are going to be the next government so we have to push to make sure they listen to the issues.

Some find Labour unpalatable just as some do the Tories but we need to engage and keep winning the arguments on the facts.

MajorCarolDanvers · 16/01/2023 15:05

Labour's poll lead ranges from 16% to 26%

They are already electable.

Parisj · 16/01/2023 15:09

Well I welcome the direction of travel, even if too little and much too late and think they need to hear that there is a constituency of voters who welcome them to the debate.