How do you feel when family members have the polar opposite opinion?

[sensechec]

Turns out that my cousin is TWAW. She messaged me after I posted something on Instagram 'wanting to clarify what I meant'. Short conversation later I clarified that I believe sex is binary and immutable and she clarified that she does not agree.

No one was nasty or anything, although I think I could feel judgement her end.

I feel sad that she likely thinks I'm just a bigot because of course an Instagram post and a short text conversation does not illustrate my point in any sort of detail.

This is something I've given thought to every single day for over 4 years, it's not a knee jerk bigoted reaction.

I don't have much to do with her anymore although we did used to be close.

I just feel sad I suppose.

I really don't know the actual figures.

I might not agree with them, but I respect that they have a differing opinion on things.
I just don't engage them in conversation if they start off on one trying to preach and instead change the subject
"Did you see Masked Singer tonight? Who do you think Fawn is?"
"Tried this right nice tin of soup the other day, have you tried it?!"
"Gone dark all of a sudden hasn't it? Looks like it's about to rain...."
😁

See, I'd disagree with this though.
Just because someone disagrees, doesn't mean they haven't read up, they're ignorant, and undereducated on the subject
Just means they have educated themselves and come to a different viewpoint to yourself.

I clarified that I believe sex is binary and immutable and she clarified that she does not agree.

Bizarre, isn't it - and yet, if you argued that water is dry and the sun is dark, I doubt she would respect your (theoretical) 'opinions'.

I'm all for people being allowed to have different opinions on controversial matters, but very few of these people seem to think that should work both ways. It's rarely "Well, we'll have to agree to differ, then" - always that YOU are wrong and I am wright.

Maybe if those of us with 'traditional' opinions on the nature of a human's sex screamed and swore into their faces and called them emotive slurs, there might be some more balance; but it tends to go with the territory that those of us referring to actual science don't feel the need to bluster and gaslight in order to force our 'opinions' across.

That said, it would be interesting to play them at their own game and scream at them, demanding to know why they are such nasty woman-hating bigots; but unfortunately, they're already in their own fantasy world, so they'd never accept any plain logic that you could introduce to them.

Still, when anybody who insists (with menaces and accusations) that TWAW or TMAM, I think the first response (that they won't be expecting at all) is to ask them if they would date and/or sleep with one (depending on their own sex and sexuality) - and if not, why not?

Just because someone disagrees, doesn't mean they haven't read up, they're ignorant, and undereducated on the subject
Just means they have educated themselves and come to a different viewpoint to yourself.

So if somebody had studied maths extensively and come to the viewpoint that 4+4=3; or if they'd put in hours of research in geography and arrived at the conclusion that Bournemouth is a 5-minute cycle ride from Inverness - would you still think the same?

My sister goes silent in a similar way to most politicians when I mention this. It grates so much! But then she is apolitical about everything and spends her time very much in mainstream consumer land, which also drives me crackers. Like a lot of people, happy in their own bubble until reality can no longer be ignored.

my sister lives In California so TWAW.

She has been very annoyed with me & told me to educate myself. I won’t discuss it with her. She still tries to bring it up.

I think it's good she tries to bring it up, at least you get to debate your point?

I feel like my cousin is probably basing her whole opinion on me now on a post, and three lines of text. Shame.

My teenage daughter is TWAW and Be Kind, as it all her friends. She doesn't believe men can use woman's spaces for nefarious reasons. I despair, as I'm trying to arm her with information to prevent anything bad happening to her.

@sensechec we’re very close & discuss everything else but not this one. She doesn’t want a discussion, wants to tell me I’m wrong. She firmly believes in born in the wrong body & besides what’s it got to do with me.

I believe that in 5 years time she’ll have changed her mind.

I hope the same.

I just don't know how people believe this shit.

My lesbian DD believes TWAW and I'm a Terf. Fortunately her eldest sister after following transitioners has woken up to the whole scary brainwashing and her beliefs are now more aligned with mine. There is hope for our teens/young adults.

Yeah, I regretfully brought up the subject of men in women's prisons, men in women's sports etc as a cause for concern in conversation with my brother, but he just hit back with "most vulnerable, marginalized, oppressed minority. Be kind" mantras. Like from a script. Scary really.

I have never broached the subject with him again, except at Christmas I mentioned in passing how I was permanently banned from Twitter for saying a woman can't have a penis (true story) and hopefully Elon Musk won't be such a bigot!

Same here with a cousin of mine who was one of my favourite relatives. She asked me to stop having an opinion on social media and then cut all ties when I refused. Apart from her sending me a message when my Mum died we’ve not spoken in 2 and a half years.

I think the problem is that once you know how easily they fall for shit like this you lose respect for them and you can never return to what you used to have. I have a number of doctors and academics in my life whom I, perhaps foolishly, respected. If they'd told me something or suggested I do or don't do something I would have trusted their judgment. Now it turns out that they are not just far more emotional and less rational than I had believed (be kind/ most marginal is all about emotion and not head, isn't it?) but when shown the evidence they've refused to read or accept it or modify their position. I go to visit my Welsh Government MS who has an Oxbridge degree and a higher degree and holds a position of great responsibility in the government and all they say, straight-faced, when I put my carefully considered case to them is 'I don't share your views'. When I say 'Please tell me this is a political stance and that you don't actually believe that a man with a penis is actually a woman who is entitled to come along to lesbian events?' they say they do genuinely hold that belief. Surely people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality need to be removed from office? We're being governed by people with a clear lack of judgment.

DP was full TWAW for some time. We would have raging rows about it and it was usually for the same reasons - he didn’t know how to counter my points other than suggesting it was a bigoted view so would get angry instead. He wouldn’t believe most of what I said, refused for months to read JKR’s essay but would spout the ‘JKR transphobic line’. We almost separated over it.

I think it was sports that changed his mind. Lia Thomas in particular though eyebrows were raised at Laurel Hubbard. Even then, to begin with, there was a lot of ‘problems with both sides’ until he finally got there. Sites like Terf is a slur and articles of the treatment of women started to sway him.

I’ve reflected on this on a lot and can say for certainty that if it was anyone else in the world, I’d roll my eyes, judge silently but leave it at that.

There’s too issues here with otherwise reasonable people who won’t even discuss the issue l - people want to be kind and people don’t want to be wrong. Nobody wants to really verify if trans people are being murdered in the UK so they take it as gospel to be kind. And once they’ve repeated that statement into the world as truth they don’t want to look like a fool for repeating a lie. So instead dismiss, refuse to engage and reframe the opposing side as bigot/fascist/whatever to justify their position instead of acting spending time scrutinising their beliefs.

Good to hear! My DD1 recently peaked and now is aghast others can't see it. DD2 is young enough where social conditioning and school has had its influence but she's halfway up the mountain-primarily because she and her friends are annoyed with Dylan Mulvaney. Teen girls may not have life experience but they aren't stupid. Girls know when they're being mocked.

My elderly sister lives in Canada and takes everything CBC says as gospel. So yet another subject I have to avoid talking about with her because she also believes that even at end of life, she knows more than me because she is older

This. Couldn’t give a fuck if they’re offended by my views or think I’m a bigot.

You can't discuss anything rationally with my family so I haven't but I very much doubt they believe in gender ideology.

The only people I have disagreed with are teen dc, and how do I feel about the disagreement? Bloody terrified that they'll decide mum is a bigot and not someone to trust or discuss such things with.

I made a bit of a mess at first but got to the point where we all agreed that no one can change sex so after that it was just discussing respect for everyone and rights (mainly of women and girls) and we broadly agree.

What I'm quite ashamed about is that I advised them to keep GC opinions to themselves at school. I don't want them being labelled as bigots!