Well shit

[Palmfrond]

So me and my eldest, 8, were having a chat about biology, as in worms, bacteria, plants, cells, all regular stuff that we talk about fairly often. We get on to the topic of reproduction, eg how do worms reproduce, how some plants and animals are hermaphroditic, most animals are, to my limited knowledge, gonochoric (sp?) etc etc. Anyway, at an early point I corrected his use of “gender” when he meant sex, and thought nothing of it because the two are very often confused.
Anyway, the chat went on, and then he said somewhat randomly that he sometimes he’s not sure if he feels like a girl or a boy. I asked him in a gently quizzical tone what he thought it means to feel like a girl and a boy. He didn’t really know, so I suggested that you don’t need to be a boy or a girl to want to do x or y activity or like x or y things, and that he was very much a boy as he has a penis and testicles, but outside of that he can do what he likes (within reason obviously).

He’s known how babies are made and about same sex attraction from a very early age, but I thought I had a year or two more before I had to start dealing with this. He’s very much a stereotypical boyish boy, so I can only presume this came from an external source (and I can also safely presume that it didn’t come from any of his mates either).

My question is, do I follow this up with him or just let it go and see if it comes up again? I’m reticent to take it up more publicly, ie with school. My wife is also fairly intolerant of my gender critical views, which I suspect she sees as an extension of my masculinity (I disagree, it’s a seperate thing).
Im also curious if anybody knows- is gender stuff on the curriculum? I’m pretty spun out by the whole thing tbh.

Lastly, sorry if this in the wrong forum. It was either here or parenting, I chose here because I thought it would be more supportive.

You could say something along the lines of a boy is what he is.

Any way he feels is feeling like a boy.

Start looking here safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

I think it is safe to assume it is in schools and the earlier addressed the better. This thread this morning on a twitter thread from headteachers is revealing www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4717755-people-from-our-side-being-vocal-on-twitter-re-gender-identity-ideology-in-schools

Im also curious if anybody knows- is gender stuff on the curriculum? I’m pretty spun out by the whole thing tbh.

Check with your school and then when he goes to secondary, check that school too.

I agree with Tratjymp that 'any way he feels is feeling like a boy'. However I disagree with you palmfrond, it could very well be coming from his mates and peers.

From that age they are very conscious of fitting in and I remember distinctly around that age fielding 'boys don't do x' and 'girls don't do y'. It was very concerning to see. We moved from another country to the UK at age 10 and found the UK was even worse. The amount of pressure to conform to gendered stereotypes was very noticeable from peers and new friends.

Thanks for the replies and links. I’m mostly just venting. We live in a fairly conservative town and he goes to a c of e parochial school. I’m just a bit shocked he’s come out with it. It’s absolutely not like him, and tbh it did seem like he was just trying something out to judge my reaction, as we’re very close.
im also grateful to this forum as I do read it often and I think I was prepared with the right words.

My child also went to a c of e school, if that helps.

Are you male? If your wife has different views, is your son conscious of that?

My DS said at a similar age that he sometimes wished he was a girl. Turns out it was because he got bullied for liking "girl things" like craft and dancing so he thought actually being a girl might be easier.

Hes 18 now, and a unicorn, sparkles, rainbow, musical loving gay man.

However, gender ideology wasn't taught or schools in those days. It seems to be very common now in most schools.

You might be right! He’s got lots of friends but is also slightly set apart from his peers because neither football nor video games are part of our household culture. Something to watch, I suppose. For the record I’m happy for him to be as conformist as he likes. I just don’t want this gender stuff being piggy backed onto any of the other questions he has finding his way in the world.

I’m a man, yes. My wife and don’t talk about anything like this in front of the kids. We are usually in accord about most things, but she is American and “liberal” leaning, while my background is Liverpool Irish and hard left. We have rather different parameters for our political views.

I think it's a good thing that you've had this conversation. It's better that your DS hears more than one view, although I don't envy you having a partner with potentially differing opinions.
Children get exposed very early to discussion around sex and gender.
Advice to schools has shifted a bit and the guidelines around RSE teaching are on the gov.uk website.
Schools do teach what we used to call 'sex ed' usually in year 6 and I think that you cannot withdraw your children now, but you can ask to see the teaching materials.

It can be as simple as that. It was in our case. I think what was wonderful was that before we moved to the UK, our child's school had free dance classes for their year group. It was remarkable how it was about half boys and half girls. The entire boys football team did it.

Yet, in the commercial dance classes in that local area, there were very few boys. (And that could be because clashes in activity time tables and budget constraints, because those boys loved that class and had a great time).

Either way, palmfrond, I would hope that your wife would be fully supportive of raising a child that felt no pressure from you both to conform to gender stereotypes.

What I don't get is that most people my age (late 50s) were teenagers in the 1980s when popular culture was full of gender non-conformity. Tragically we all lived through the AIDS crisis and have been lucky enough to see a world which has equal marriage and nobody giving much of a shit about whether someone is gay or not.

Did I miss the time when we swung back to the 1950s and had strict "gender" stereotypes?

As someone said upthread - ask to see the school PSHE teaching materials. You have that right, don't let them fob you off with claiming that the materials are copywrite.
Check to see if the school is teaching PSHE themselves. Or are they getting in an external company? Lots of names are real red flags - Proud Trust, Mermaids, Jigsaw, Educate and Celebrate. All teach Gender stuff that should not be anywhere near your child.
Pop n Olly are bad news too.
You are not fussing.

I am shocked that he knows how babies are made at 8 years old, and you say from a very early age! I found out at 10/11 and I grew up perfectly fine! What's up with that?!!!!!

What's wrong with 8 year olds knowing?

all good tips. Keep an eye on it but don’t make it a big thing.

also check
www.transgendertrend.com/

What's right with them knowing?! It's ridiculous. They don't need to know at that age.

It might not have come from school,
feeling ‘like a girl, like a boy, both or neither’ is all over various kid’s media too, including cartoons.

eg:
screenrant.com/iconic-non-binary-gender-noncomforming-characters-animated/

Even if he doesn’t have Netflix/Disney plus etc at home, some of his mates will have seen this stuff and be talking about it.

It’s impossible to shut it out, so all we can do is talk about it and try and inoculate against some of the most harmful aspects of sex stereotypes whilst encouraging respect for a healthy, natural body based on what it can do (and how long it has to last us).

It can be done age appropriately.

I wouldn't bring it up again until he does. Reacting calmly and encouraging him to think critically will hopefully have had a good effect. Good luck OP.