Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Drop the Queer

40 replies

pattihews · 10/01/2023 18:29

Census results indicate that only 15,000 people in the UK identify as Queer. That's 0.02% of the population. In 2021 179, 000 people identified as Jedi Knights. There's room for 90,000 people in Wembley Stadium.

Stonewall's definition of Queer is:
Queer is a term used by those wanting to reject specific labels of romantic orientation, sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It can also be a way of rejecting the perceived norms of the LGBT community (racism, sizeism, ableism etc)
which rather confirms that Queer means anything anyone wants it to mean.

Why are Stonewall and other groups putting so much time into a tiny number of people who could have very little in common with each other?

OP posts:
pattihews · 10/01/2023 20:44

paulinesmithson · 10/01/2023 20:24

I honestly find the replies disgusting and degrading. Even if there was only one queer person in the whole country, we should still support that person.
15,000 is a large number - and do you know why they need support as queer people?
Take a guess. It's because of blatant homophobia like this which makes this country a hostile place to live in
Educate yourself and grow up.

What is it about being Queer that means you need support? You have a full range of rights, just like any other citizen. What extra do you want?

I speak as an older lesbian who spent nearly 30 years of my adult life as, literally, a second class citizen. I could be refused service in pubs and restaurants and hotels. I had no Until 2003 it was legal to discriminate against LGB people at work. Under Thatcher and Section 28 many of us had to hide our sexuality. I couldn't marry. I couldn't leave my property to my life partner and avoid IHT. Loads of things.

We're all equal now. So describe to me this mythical last Queer person standing and explain what support they need. And will you extend that same support to me, if I identify as a cat, or to my neighbour's son if he identifies as as his avatar, or the last remaining Goth or follower of Odin or Zoroaster? Why is Queer so special?

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 10/01/2023 20:56

I do admire the gumption of coming onto a thread largely full of lesbians and telling them they're homophobic and need to 'educate themselves and grow up'.

NecessaryScene · 10/01/2023 20:59

'educate themselves and grow up'.

And given how old they are all apparently supposed to be, that might be fatal.

Helleofabore · 10/01/2023 23:12

That poster has told many people to go ‘educate themselves’ tonight.

I think it takes some brass neck thought to post this on this thread. Telling Lesbians to effectively STFU is how I read it.

Delphinium20 · 11/01/2023 00:13

In our home, we do not allow the "Q" word any more than we'd allow use of the "N" word. While I'm a free speech absolutist and don't believe our family rules should be law for anyone else, these are slurs we won't abide. Our older lesbian family members were taunted with that word and I calmly explain this to young people who have used it around our kids. We need no reeducation, thank you.

RestingMurderousFace · 11/01/2023 00:19

Choconut · 10/01/2023 18:45

I hate the word, it was an insult when I was a child and should be left in the past IMO.

Same. Makes my skin crawl when I hear people casually throw it around.

antipodeancanary · 11/01/2023 00:20

Pauline Smithson, you are mistaken if you think identifying as queer has anything to do with being homosexual.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 11/01/2023 00:20

@paulinesmithson

as the song says

‘We don’t need no education.
We don’t need no thought control’.

oh and ‘leave those kids alone’ ……

ArcheryAnnie · 11/01/2023 01:00

StillWeRise · 10/01/2023 18:58

yes, you don't get to 'reclaim' queer unless you have actually had it said to you as an insult

Yup.

Many (most?) people who label themselves as queer are "spicy straight" and under 30, which disqualifies them from using it on both counts.

ArcheryAnnie · 11/01/2023 01:04

@paulinesmithson er, you do know you are accusiaremany lesbian and bi women of homophobia, surely? Why do you want to deny the right of lesbian and bi women to complain about the use of a homophobic slur by people against whom that slur was never used?

Dougalskeeper · 11/01/2023 04:50

I find the term 'queer' highly offensive. I'm a lesbian and would be offended if referred to as queer.

garlictwist · 11/01/2023 05:37

This is a very interesting thread and I hope you won't mind me joining in as a straight person with no experience of homophobia.

I have often wondered what "queer" means but too afraid to ask. I work in a university and it's a term used liberally by many of my students. I work with disabled students, some of whom identify as autistic. It is often this latter group who use the term "queer" to describe themselves.

pattihews · 11/01/2023 13:11

You're welcome to join in, @garlictwist Queer used to be a word used to insult gay men in particular, but also lesbians. The LGB community responded by taking it up themselves and defusing the insult, in the same way that gender critical women have taken the insult 'terf' and now use it proudly. But for some LGB people and their families 'queer' is still a painful and damaging insult.

Some lesbian or gay or bi people sometimes call themselves Queer. That may be because they have some internalised homophobia and don't want to call themselves gay or lesbian or bisexual or homosexual. Being Queer is regarded as trendy, unlike the popular image of lesbians — short-haired, political, hairy, no fun, man-hating etc. I suspect, too, that some bisexual people call themselves Queer in order to avoid the stigma that's sometimes attached to them.

The majority of people who describe themselves as Queer, in my experience, are straight people who want to send a signal that they're different. Many of those I know are in straight relationships. They may be actively trying to subvert what they perceive as typical sex stereotypes — so perhaps the man stays at home and looks after the children while his wife goes out to work. Or some seem to use it to indicate that they follow a kink-based lifestyle: I knew one Queer couple who both wore things like studded necklets and leather cuffs to work until asked not to.

But the majority of Queer folk, ime, are just plain old ordinary straight people who want to feel as if they're edgy and interesting. I imagine a lot of them are the kind of people who don't feel they fit society's model of how we are supposed to be. Look around at the Queer people in your university. Many of them are the type of people who don't look like we're supposed to look in this FB and TikTok age. The fat ones, the goofy-looking ones, the plain ones, the misfits. (I speak as one of them, I'm not judging) Calling themselves Queer makes them feel special and different from those who conform.

When I was at university a number of my contemporaries liked to describe themselves as anarchists. Others were Goths. The difference is that anarchists and Goths didn't have powerful lobby groups like Stonewall arguing that they were special and needed special rights. And they weren't riding on the backs of a genuine, formerly persecuted minority (LGB people) for credibility.

OP posts:
DanseAvecLesLoups · 11/01/2023 13:17

I have to confess to being a bit old school. When I was at university there was the LGB club, it made sense. I have not a fecking clue what half the definitions mean these days.

garlictwist · 11/01/2023 15:17

pattihews · 11/01/2023 13:11

You're welcome to join in, @garlictwist Queer used to be a word used to insult gay men in particular, but also lesbians. The LGB community responded by taking it up themselves and defusing the insult, in the same way that gender critical women have taken the insult 'terf' and now use it proudly. But for some LGB people and their families 'queer' is still a painful and damaging insult.

Some lesbian or gay or bi people sometimes call themselves Queer. That may be because they have some internalised homophobia and don't want to call themselves gay or lesbian or bisexual or homosexual. Being Queer is regarded as trendy, unlike the popular image of lesbians — short-haired, political, hairy, no fun, man-hating etc. I suspect, too, that some bisexual people call themselves Queer in order to avoid the stigma that's sometimes attached to them.

The majority of people who describe themselves as Queer, in my experience, are straight people who want to send a signal that they're different. Many of those I know are in straight relationships. They may be actively trying to subvert what they perceive as typical sex stereotypes — so perhaps the man stays at home and looks after the children while his wife goes out to work. Or some seem to use it to indicate that they follow a kink-based lifestyle: I knew one Queer couple who both wore things like studded necklets and leather cuffs to work until asked not to.

But the majority of Queer folk, ime, are just plain old ordinary straight people who want to feel as if they're edgy and interesting. I imagine a lot of them are the kind of people who don't feel they fit society's model of how we are supposed to be. Look around at the Queer people in your university. Many of them are the type of people who don't look like we're supposed to look in this FB and TikTok age. The fat ones, the goofy-looking ones, the plain ones, the misfits. (I speak as one of them, I'm not judging) Calling themselves Queer makes them feel special and different from those who conform.

When I was at university a number of my contemporaries liked to describe themselves as anarchists. Others were Goths. The difference is that anarchists and Goths didn't have powerful lobby groups like Stonewall arguing that they were special and needed special rights. And they weren't riding on the backs of a genuine, formerly persecuted minority (LGB people) for credibility.

Thank you, @pattihews -that's a really informative post and resonates a lot with my experiences. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page