Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help with ASD DS and non-binary

38 replies

Mossball · 07/01/2023 10:07

DS is 15 and has ASD. Last year he was overweight and unhappy with his body and he made a concerted effort to lose weight. It was his focus. He restricted to the point I was worried about eating disorders.

He lost weight but was then unhappy with his body because he didn't have defined muscles and there was still body fat. He then decided to build muscle by weight lifting and that was his focus. He was great at this and his body is strong with clearly defined muscles.

He has now decided he's non-binary so is unhappy with his very clearly male body - he has very broad shoulders and large hands and feet. He also has a very deep voice. He wants to be more feminine so that people aren't sure if he's male or female. This is physically impossible because he's so clearly and obviously male. I'm not sure he is non-binary at all and I think this just reflects a deeper unhappiness that is hyperfocussed on his body.

How can I get help for him? I have been given places to take him for children who are non-binary but I don't see that helping. One of his friends wants to transition from male to female and DS seems to be saying stuff he's got from them. We are all over his internet access so I don't think he's looking at this online. Every professional seems to focus on the non-binary but given how DS has been I don't believe that's the solution. He's clearly unhappy but whether it's with his body or some other deep rooted unhappiness I don't know. Any suggestions for places I can ask for advice?

OP posts:
SmokeyPaprika · 08/01/2023 07:34

A kind personal trainer? Join a sports group, cycling?

waterwitch · 08/01/2023 07:36

Sorry to follow the derail OP

I think trying to get your ds involved in some regular activities outside the house would be good. Ones which provide positive feedback and boost his self-esteem, and maybe use his newly developed strength! You know him best and have an idea what he’d enjoy - sport/physical challenge/community groups/martial arts (v good for obsessives!) Might need to bribe him to try it to start with.
This helped with my friend’s dd who sounds similar. Just giving her brain something else to focus on was helpful!

FrancescaContini · 08/01/2023 08:17

startingitallagain · 07/01/2023 12:53

Another thing to add @Mossball is of course the hyperfocus and intense interests that autistic people can have.

Do you and DS talk about autism and this hyperfocus?

This is an excellent point.

Can you direct the hyper-focus outwards and away from the self? Towards anything other than “identity”? At the very least, get him off the Internet.

BreatheAndFocus · 08/01/2023 10:16

Cisgender means that you're the same gender that the genitalia you were born with indicates, I suppose

Er, no. We got past all those regressive stereotypes years ago. Having a vagina doesn’t mean you have to wear dresses/lipstick/simper and giggle/ can’t be a scientist or mathematician 🙄

OP, perhaps you could utilise his previous obsessions and point out how achieving them wasn’t enough for him so he had to have a new target? Suggest that his unhappiness with his body isn’t because there’s anything wrong with it.

Get him out doing activities, preferably ones where his physical body is a benefit eg sports, or even singing with his deep voice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 10:32

Most of the arguments against trans people seem to be based on cis women being disadvantaged or hurt

There's no such thing as "cis". Women are female, and don't come in two sexes. MTF trans people are male.

FrancescaContini · 08/01/2023 10:58

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 10:32

Most of the arguments against trans people seem to be based on cis women being disadvantaged or hurt

There's no such thing as "cis". Women are female, and don't come in two sexes. MTF trans people are male.

“Cis” women 🧐

The word is “women”. The c-word is ideologically loaded. It’s also meaningless.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 11:08

This is an interesting article as the Bayswater group has been suggested as a source of support, @Mossball

Hadley meets Bayswater Support Group www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4714858-hadley-meets-bayswater-support-group

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 11:10

Another factor at play here is an increased awareness of young people’s mental health. On the plus side it has brought deeper understanding of adolescent anxiety. On the minus side it can tip into pathologising the normal human condition: anything other than constant happiness in one’s child is seen as a terrifying problem that requires treatment. “Your kids have to learn to live in their unhappiness,” Obama said, correctly.

NitroNine · 08/01/2023 13:03

Sorry OP, I got sidetracked. Have you contacted Beat at all? His behaviour sounds a bit as if it’s evolved from one type of OSFED to another, something that’s quite common. They’ve a specific info page on their site about men with EDs - over-exercising is a really common presentation; & such visceral disgust at his body would make sense if viewed through that lens. I might be wrong, but if it is that, getting him to talk about it might help unravel the gender stuff somewhat.

NeuroWasabi · 08/01/2023 18:34

@NitroNine Thank you so much for taking the time to share that info with me. I'm definitely going to research thoroughly ASAP, so I'm sure that will be helpful.

OP- Sorry for derailing the thread, all the best

NitroNine · 08/01/2023 19:15

Apologies again OP.

(You’re welcome @NeuroWasabi - I hope you find it helpful. I was worried about seeming rude &/or unkind when my intent was truly neither; indeed I was worried you might start to feel a might jumped on as someone (as far as I can tell) engaging in good faith but finding her every thought shot down by multiple posters! Nobody has the intent of being unkind, but I can see it might feel a bit overwhelming to have a dozen people telling you “no! absolutely not!” every time you post. It’s not done with the intent of silencing you or anything sinister - posters wouldn’t trouble themselves to hunt out links to share if it were.

Trans Activists routinely demand that women “educate” themselves. What they mean is “unquestioningly accept our propaganda”. Over here we are all for people actually educating themselves; & eager to facilitate it. Unsurprising, of course that [multiply privileged] males fail to understand the power & significance education holds for the female of the species… 🙄)

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 09/01/2023 07:40

THREAD FROM ELSEWHEREI'm not an expert or anything, but as an autistic person who received informed consent hormones/surgery, regrets it, and doesn't feel like my consent was truly informed...here's how I, personally, think things could be improved to help autistic people make informed choices.First, I've gotten yelled at before for people misreading me re: autism before, so to be crystal clear: none of this is saying autistic people don't have autonomy, nor is it infantalizing them (us?) or implying they can't be trusted to make choices about their own lives. HOWEVER

there ARE differences in how autistic people work, & acknowledging that allows things to be MORE accessible. Many autistic people are very capable but perceive things differently than non-autistics intend, and that can be accommodated for by changing how information is presented.
I don't think autistic people are stupid, I think we think differently than others (which is why there's a name for our neurotype at all...) Anyway, disclaimer out of the way, here's what I think might help.

^1: Acknowledging that many autistic adults — particularly females and PoC — do not know they're autistic. I don't think it's reasonable (or necessary) to give everyone seeking transition related healthcare a full evaluation, but I think screening with something like the raads-r-
could be a jumping off point for either further evaluation OR just further discussion and working with the assumption that the person may benefit from an autism centred approach.^

2: Making it explicitly clear to the patient that an autism diagnosis will NOT disqualify them from receiving transition related procedures or medication, or remove their autonomy to choose, so that they are willing to freely discuss it and to disclose if they have a diagnosis.

3: Ensuring that doctors are aware that two very common autistic traits are being highly trusting and highly literal, and how this might affect an autistic individual's expectations of what the treatments they're seeking will do for them.

I think doctors need to be very forthcoming and blunt about what these treatments will and will NOT do. Eg "testosterone might make you feel more comfortable in your body, and might make it easier for other people to see you as male, but it is not capable of changing your sex -
and is not guaranteed to make you pass as male.

The effects are highly variable and you are not guaranteed to get all of the ones you desire to the extent you desire". Additionally, doctors need to be aware of some very common sentiments in trans spaces that are not true -
eg. "nobody actually regrets transitioning" and "cis people don't ever think about their gender", and ensure that autistic patients understand that these statements have political undertones, no evidence behind them, and cannot be taken as literal fact.

Some autistic people are quite adept and differentiating between literal and figurative (or simply misleading) statements, but many are not, so it's not safe to assume that things like that are obvious. I was told (& believed) that T makes everyone pass, for example. It doesn't!

4: From that, understanding that feeling disconnected from peers/society/the self is fairly common among autistic people, trans or not, and exploring other potential causes of dysphoria while remaining explicitly open to the idea that transition is the best path for the patient.

The ways autism can mimic dysphoria (sensory issues, literal interpretation of gender roles, not understanding gendered socialization) should be discussed, and whether those factors are impacting the person's experience. Again, solely for their own understanding of themselves.
There should also be an understanding that many autistic people have difficulty interpreting their emotions, so they should be encouraged to consider multiple angles even if they still end up landing on their original interpretation. It shouldn't be assumed that they already have

5: Doctors need to be blunt about there being multiple types of "passing" — people thinking you are biologically the gender you identify as, and people understanding what you're going for and respecting it. Not in the sense that the former is BETTER, but again: literal & trusting

It needs to be explicitly clear that being treated as the gender one identifies as does not ALWAYS translate into being seen as that gender by society at large, and that they will never stop being trans. It's not a tragedy, but they need to KNOW. Literal thinkers may not.

They need to be able to make informed choices and that includes the kind of sucky knowledge that that they very well might be seen as trans forever. That might be totally fine with them — and there's nothing wrong with that — but they can only decide that if they're aware of it.
Basically, I think people deserve to know if they're autistic before making decisions like this and deserve to have all the facts, and to have them presented in an accessible way. I think autistic people deserve the opportunity to discuss the impact of their autism without fear.

As autistic people we DO have strengths, and one is that we tend to be highly logical. I think that, given the opportunity to discuss the reality of our situation without judgment or fear of losing access to care, we can really explore ourselves. Healthcare providers can assist!

In my ideal world autistic people (everyone, actually) would get a whole lot of mental health care and treatment for our very common comorbidities (depression, anxiety, etc) before doing informed consent, but the above are simply things I think could be fairly easily implemented.

Source

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 09/01/2023 07:41

That was posted on twitter today. I thought some elements from it might be helpful to you, OP.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page