Aargh radio 4 just now! STILL lying about sex, gender and stereotypes!

[SockGoddess]

I am so fed up of this bloody lie! - that the reason some people aren't on board with the trans movement is because they think that your sex should determine what you do/wear/think/interests etc. As just kindly spelt out by Angela Eagle and Will Young, us oldies today didn't grow up with the idea of being free from sex-based restrictions so we can't get our heads round it.

FFS will you STOP LYING about this? I am in my 50s and grew up in the 80s when we were free to have any gender expression/clothes/make-up/style/interests we liked and understood that completely! We've gone backwards because now transgenderism says that one type of gender expression means you're a man and another means you're a woman! It's just plain old sex-based stereotypes. HOW CAN THEY NOT SEE THIS.

I know this has been said a million times on here and it's pointless by why lie? Or alternatively be so dumb and ill-informed?

Why the fuck would radical feminists be all about expecting people to adhere to sex stereotypes? THEY'RE NOT.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

They wouldn't get away with a blatant lie about anything else? Why do they keep doing this?

Cheers Arabella <glug>

AND. AND. By definition. If you think you are breaking free from sex-based stereotypes by being trans, then you are essentially agreeing that you have a sex and it hasn't changed.

You're saying you are all modern and progressive because you are trans - for example you have a gender identity that is "woman" when you are in fact a man.

If you insist that TWAW woman and that means you really are a woman, complete with access to women's sex-based rights and spaces, then what's non-stereotypical about following a bunch of feminine stereotypes. NOTHING THAT'S WHAT. You can only think you're challenging stereotypes if you agree that you're a man. Right?

If you insist that TWAW woman and that means you really are a woman, complete with access to women's sex-based rights and spaces, then what's non-stereotypical about following a bunch of feminine stereotypes. NOTHING THAT'S WHAT. You can only think you're challenging stereotypes if you agree that you're a man. Right?

Damn, you're so logical. So what's a bloke like you doing hanging out on a feminist forum? Bit weird.

If that's Angela Eagle MP, Wikipedia tells me she's 61 yo, which surely puts her in the 'oldies' category.

🤦🏻‍♀️

Sorry that was in reply to NecessaryScene

Yes she's older than me, did she not notice the 80s?

It's like trying to understand a religion, there's no really rhyme or reason. This is a spiritual belief. A rather sexist one.

I agree it’s like a religion, but at least religious people understand that atheists don’t have a religion.

This is as if Christians said “the trouble with atheists is that they don’t understand god because of their supernatural beliefs”

Just utter bollocks.

My genderwoo relative actually says that my problem is my “GC beliefs” but I don’t have any beliefs. I just have an assessment of situations based on available facts and logical reasoning. I don’t even claim to be a member of a GC “club” or group or movement - it’s just a description that can be used for being critical of gender stereotypes.

it’s all part of the DARVO I guess but what bugs me is that it’s obvious bollocks and R4 (and similar) just accept it and don’t ask questions to interrogate it.

It annoys me too (understatement). For fucks sake people - it’s gender CRITICAL!! As in critical of gender. Idiots…

SockGoddess · Today 19:14
it’s all part of the DARVO I guess but what bugs me is that it’s obvious bollocks and R4 (and similar) just accept it and don’t ask questions to interrogate it.

I did not hear it, but could someone good at writing clearly, logically and succinctly (you, for example, if you could face it?)spell it out for them fact by fact to explain they are saying something nonsensical?

Oh I heard this, made my blood boil.

I'm so fed up with the one-sided way PM treats this issue. First they interviewed Nancy Kelley, then they interviewed Will Young and Angela Eagle. All three of them trotted out the pro-trans activist line. Where's the balance?

Of course it's possible that the producer didn't realise that all three of them would want to talk about the trans stuff rather than gay issues, especially given that all three are gay or lesbian.

Ive said this before so am boring I realise but I grew up in the 70s and 80s

In terms of role models for kids (mainly pop stars) think about who was on telly and in the magazines and therefore on childrens telly, Saturday morning telly or top of the pops

Marc Bolan
David Bowie
Polystyrene
Various new romantic pop starts/groups
Annie Lennox
Alison Moyet
The Belle Stars
Boy George
Grace Jones

I could go on

None of the women there (and there were more) were highly sexualised, pornified, 'girly', 'feminine'. They were strong looking, assertive, powerful, confidently androgenous. I wasnt a girly girl so felt I was connected and identified with some of these women. You didnt need to wear half falling off clothes and have long luscious hair etc. Of course those types of role models were also around but even in something like Charlies Angels, one of those women was more kooky and girl next door.

Who are the main women you would see on telly for kids these days, female pop stars with hugely sexualised personas. A pre teen or just teen girl has little in common with that, its probably quite frightening to think about that as womanhood.

In terms of the men, there were all sorts of people who were strong males but wore make up, long hair, sparkles etc etc, but they were men.

Yes - because feminism and progressiveness was actually going somewhere and we were challenging the idea that your sex has to limit how you dress or what job you do or what you're interested in.

That was actual moving away from sex-based stereotypes. Instead of adhering to extreme, polarised stereotypes while trying to pretend you can change sex to fit in with them better! How does anyone think that's progress?

JUST.
HOW.

I did not hear it, but could someone good at writing clearly, logically and succinctly (you, for example, if you could face it?)spell it out for them fact by fact to explain they are saying something nonsensical?

I know that would be more constructive than ranting on here, but I kind of can't face the glib, shallow reply that totally fails to get it (while obviously writing me off as a T*RF so not worth listening to). It's so depressing.

Women's history continues to be hidden. The richness of women's lives is continually being ignored in the service of ideological goals. The women's/gender studies departments, in their narrow focus on oppressor/victim/power narratives, have been no help. The narrative is: women were soooooo oppressed in the past (meaning 5 minutes ago) and we are here to saaaave you (albeit with a side order of erasure). They have no idea what women's lives were really like and no interest in finding out. I mean, all they have to do is ask their mothers, grandmothers, etc.

Its worse than that though in terms of womens history, any woman who wasnt some fainting flower/overly feminine is re defined as either transgender or 'was actually a man'

Ive even seen it written about Elizabeth the first, speculating that because she didnt marry or have children she must have actually been a man!!! Because a woman cant be a monarch and not want to give up her power, someone who doesnt marry must be a man!

Its worse than that though in terms of womens history, any woman who wasnt some fainting flower/overly feminine is re defined as either transgender or 'was actually a man'

It is interesting how masculine and feminine have been redefined as strength and weakness. These men know nothing of women.

I know. And all the snot nosed door slamming teens on Twitter.

'Oh you just want people to dress like how they're supposed to.'

Nope. Some of us grew up with Glam Rock, men in make up, tomboys, androgynous haircuts and clothing of 1970s kids.

They just don't get that the box conforming is what the Gender ID lot are doing.

When I teach pshe I teach reality in a very kind way. I do think we will get there. The trans kids know what sex they are. But there will be casualties, hopefully less as you can be trans essentially transvestite or have dies hair so it is meaningless. We just need to hold the line on safe spaces.