Page 2 | Ooh I think I've hit on exactly why I'm GC...

Original poster

musicalfrog · 05/01/2023 13:29

Thanks everyone I'm glad this resonates. I just don't see how any of these reactions can make any of us bad people.

The people selling the lie to vulnerable kids are the bad ones.

OP posts:

GoldenPineapple88 · 05/01/2023 13:31

Well said OP! I think you've nailed how so many of us feel about it!

Datun · 05/01/2023 13:48

I remember watching piers Morgan asking Benjamin Butterworth to explain how could people identify as a 100 different genders . Piers said " how far is it going to go ? I could just now identify as a penguin". Butterworths reply was " well that would just be ridiculous Piers , noone can identify as I penguin"! .

Yes, they're all lying liars.

And as a previous poster pointed out, they all know they're lying. Because everybody treats transwomen way better than women.

Like men, in fact.

DevilinaCardigan · 05/01/2023 13:51

@nilsmousehammer "Not to mention that this splits people into two groups:
the ones who get to figure out their special inner identity
and the ones who get to do nothing more than enable them. And shut up. And suffer whatever is necessary in the name of protecting others from reality."

And it seems that middle aged women fall into the second category and must act as mums for the first category - even if they've not given birth to them.

I just wish all of this gender stuff would just fuck off. You have a male or female body and then everything else is just your personality. You like make-up and sparkles and unicorns - fab! You like cars and sports and beer - wonderful! You like video games, cooking, reading, and screaming into the void - it's all good! None of that means anything other than what you like to wear and your hobbies and interests and personality.

Delphinium20 · 05/01/2023 19:22

ExhaustedFlamingo · 05/01/2023 02:32

Yes, this is the thing for me too OP.

I'm autistic and I really struggled with the whole TWAW. As in, do they ACTUALLY believe they ARE women? And are people just saying that to be kind??

I don't understand how people can say that TWAW. Because they're not. We all know what a bloody woman is. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. We all know they're not actually a woman, even those who say otherwise.

So what is actually going on? Are people just saying TWAW because they want to be kind? Sort of like "you can act like a woman if you want to and we'll pretend that we don't notice the difference"??

I'm just confused. Because TW are categorically not women, although they are of course free to live however they want to (providing they stay out of single sex spaces for women).

I do not have autism and I think the same way you do. Sometimes, I'm pretty sure that the person saying TWAW knows it's a social lie but sometimes I think it's less that they believe but more that they feel righteous in saying it.

WanOvaryKenobi · 06/01/2023 15:05

I'm fully convinced that even the people who parrot this bullshit don't believe it. I know some blokes who are all TWAW and will just use it as an excuse to take a pot shot at women who have an opinion. Funnily enough, they are all buying the new Harry Potter game so they don't believe the hype at all.

I know for a fact that if I declared myself a bloke just like them I would get laughed off. None of them would believe that my husband is now a gay man. Just most people do not give a shit, and most men do not give a shit about women they don't want to sleep with (or more usually women who don't want to sleep with them).

There's a tiny tiny minority of people who have somehow managed to gaslight themselves into believing that nobody knows what a man or a woman is. These people are frankly batshit.

I don't believe it for the same reason that if a white woman came up to me, said she identified with my Asiannes, then painted herself brown and started bhangra dancing all over the place to express her 'true authentic self' I would think she is a nutcase at best and a deeply disturbed racist at worst.

As for the people that definitely do not believe it but repeat it? There's social clout to be gained, you can look progressive without actually having to do anything practical, potential job losses from captured institutions, people generally want to be nice and we are taught to prioritise the feelings of men above all else. And a lot of people just aren't that bright.

lovelypidgeon · 06/01/2023 15:34

Thank you for posting. This really resonates with me- although I hadn't recognised it before I read your post.

Women (as a class and individually) have been gaslit by men and expected to take the blame for the bad behaviour/crimes of men for generations. Eg. Got raped/assaulted? you must have led them on/worn the wrong clothes. Don't like being wolfwhistled/leered at? Lighten up, it's just a bit of fun, you should be pleased people find you attractive. Annoyed that you've been sidelined at work after maternity leave? Don't pull the 'sexism card', you've had a year off and it's common knowledge that women with small children aren't as career focussed- it's not sexism just fact. Upset that the less experienced man at work has been promoted over you? There is no sexism in our workplace, one (of 30+) of our top level directors is female! So what if the man plays golf and goes drinking with the male bosses- you could do the same if you were focussed enough.

This is just the new version isn't it? Why aren't you comfortable with that woman getting changed with you? OMG, so what if she has a penis, why can't you just BE KIND.

Original poster

musicalfrog · 06/01/2023 22:54

Thank you for posting. This really resonates with me- although I hadn't recognised it before I read your post.

Thank you @lovelypidgeon ❤️

OP posts:

Wiccan · 06/01/2023 23:21

Trans women are not women and trans men are not men . Simple as that ! I refuse to go along with the Trans fuckwittery and I will not be forced and noone I know is either .

KittensNotMittens · 07/01/2023 16:53

It’s like saying that a woman who does her hair red is a redhead.

She may well feel that she looks better with red hair, that it suits her complexion and that it makes her feel better. But if she stops with the henna, Mother Nature will take over and do her thing and she will go back to her natural fair colour in time.

TheOtherBoleynGirls · 07/01/2023 16:56

WoolyMammoth55 · 04/01/2023 21:48

I was thinking last night about Rachel Dolezal - remember her?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal
She was white and she had her hair tightly permed and wore a ton of dark fake tan and assumed a Black identity, and even claimed to to the police that she was a victim of racist hate crimes...

Much later, she admitted being "born white to white parents" but maintained that she self-identified as Black.

I don't think anyone thought that was ok - at BEST people felt that she had some trauma or mental health crisis that had caused this identity crisis, and led to web of pathological lies. At worst, she's a crazed Narcissist who wanted attention as a 'disadvantaged minority/hate crime victim' and trampled over people who legitimately had that identity, invading their spaces, causing real harm in the process.

If anyone can explain to me how someone "born male in a male body" but self-identifying as a woman is any different, then I'd be keen to know.

I’m 100% with you. I just can’t grasp how changing gender is so different it’s acceptable. I’m also baffled how people were so willing to embrace a discussion about her possible mental health issues, but won’t when people want to change gender.

Fairislefandango · 07/01/2023 17:02

Yep, totally. The invasion of women's spaces, the violent online abuse of feminists, the transing of children, the transwidows of autogynephile men - it's all awful. But what really honestly made me GC isthr fact that TWAW is so very obviously an out-and-out, Emperor's New Clothes lie. And it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people spouting the TWAW line don't literally believe it either. Everyone knows the difference between a man and a woman when it suits them (e.g. 'for dating purposes').

Fairislefandango · 07/01/2023 17:09

I’m 100% with you. I just can’t grasp how changing gender is so different it’s acceptable. I’m also baffled how people were so willing to embrace a discussion about her possible mental health issues, but won’t when people want to change gender.

This is one of the problems with conflating sex and gender though. Sex is real. Gender is just a bunch of stereotypes about what women/men should be like and look like. So yeah, you can change 'gender whenever you like. It just doesn't mean anything much beyond 'I fancy wearing pink and fluttering my eyelashes today'.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2023 18:17

musicalfrog · 04/01/2023 20:55

Been mulling it over in my head for ages.

I have an extremely low tolerance for liars and narcissists.

Oh, I'm denying your reality? Well what about MY reality? Because I know what you really are, and guess what, my reality also happens to be the truth which is far more powerful.

You want to find your authentic self well maybe you should start with your reality. There is nothing more authentic than that.

Honestly that's it, I just hate lies and being lied to. It's the most hideous feeling.

Same here. I really object to bad/immoral people being self righteous as well, which is a huge part of the whole thing (and wider than just trans issues) for me.

nilsmousehammer · 07/01/2023 20:32

Someone made an extremely astute point the other day that there have become a lot of high faluting and wordy excuses for bad behaviour, bad choices and bad treatment of others, which in essence boil down to trying to make it everyone else's problem and to avoid taking any responsibility. Or having to do anything. Or to face that one's conscience is uncomfortable.

Backstreets · 08/01/2023 08:24

Same OP. TWAW started doing the rounds online about ten years ago and I just could never fall into line. Because they're not! Obviously they're not! Why should I lie to protect internet strangers' feelings? At the time I just stepped away from all conversation about it because it was so fraught. Then I decided to look up Jazz Jennings about a year ago because I wanted to know if I had been wrong about "trans kids" all along. Well, now I'm more staunch than ever and a lot more worried about what we allow children to do to themselves, and how flippant governments are about safeguarding the most vulnerable women in society (in prisons, hospitals, shelters).

Truth might hurt, but lies destroy.

FrancescaContini · 08/01/2023 08:50

Totally agree with you, OP.

FrancescaContini · 08/01/2023 08:51

Fairislefandango · 07/01/2023 17:02

Yep, totally. The invasion of women's spaces, the violent online abuse of feminists, the transing of children, the transwidows of autogynephile men - it's all awful. But what really honestly made me GC isthr fact that TWAW is so very obviously an out-and-out, Emperor's New Clothes lie. And it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people spouting the TWAW line don't literally believe it either. Everyone knows the difference between a man and a woman when it suits them (e.g. 'for dating purposes').

Your final sentence - spot on.

Arseulaundress · 08/01/2023 12:56

I am finding that when I have to sit through anything related to gender ideology now, I get a visceral reaction (in my body) that feels like panic. A fight or flight reaction involving racing heart, sweaty palms and a feeling of anger. I have realised that it is because I know I am being gaslit, and at the heart of the gaslighting is something unbelievably evil intended to stop us from listening to our gut and knowing what is or isn't true.

I found my understanding of this reaction crystalising when listening to this conversation about psychopaths, narcissists and paedophilia:

NecessaryScene · 08/01/2023 13:02

Well, yes, a man pretending to be a woman (so a 1990/2000 transwoman) is a totally different thing from a man who can compel you to accept him as a woman (transwoman 2020 edition).

The former is relatively harmless (live and let live, etc). The latter is utterly totalitarian.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2023 13:17

I completely get it @Arseulaundress

knitfastdieyoung · 08/01/2023 19:55

Nailed it, OP.

I feel I'm living The Emperor's New Clothes....