Unisex public loos

[DameHelena]

Went to a cafe the other day that had a set-up that I’m not sure was lawful. There was a door with an image of the usual sort you see in loo signs, except rather than a male and a female one there was just one that was half-male/half-female, leading to a shared space with a sink, bin and hand dryer. One loo cubicle marked ‘accessible’ that had loo, sink, bins and dryer all in one lockable cubicle, and one not marked ‘accessible’, with just loo and sanitary bin. So if a woman or girl used that one, they’d potentially come out into the hand-washing area to see a man/boy there. I was with a friend and her pre-teen DD and felt a little uncomfortable at the idea of the DD being in this position.
Is this set-up technically allowed? I thought all unisex loo facilities had to be self-contained. It was in a town in Wales, if that’s relevant.

If I understand correctly I think that as you stand in the public area of the cafe there is one door, marked as being for men and women (boys and girls) - inside this there is a handwashing area and two cubicles off it, either sex can use either cubical but one is a more spacious (accessible) loo presumably with call pull cord and handles etc. this cubical has a wash hand basin. The other does not.

It's worth bearing in mind that a single unisex loo with handwashing facilities & a sanitary bin that is for men and women to share is perfectly lawful for certain sizes of cafe. What would seem unclear is whether this area was designed for occupancy by a single person or not. If it WAS for one person at a time with a lock on the outer door I think it would be ok. HOWEVER fitting it out as two cubicles would send a message that it was multi occupancy and even if there was a lock on the outer door there would be a danger that it wouldn't be used and a woman of child could be followed into the loo by a predatory man who then locks the door behind him, or could walk in on an exhibitionist/ lazy thoughtless guy who had 'forgotten' / not bothered to close the cubicle door.

So this design imo would be a terrible idea whether it had a lock on the outer door or not. As the architecture is certainly hostile to women. I don't believe it would meet building code but a letter of complaint to the local council to ask for clarification couldn't hurt. I would certainly not feel happy or comfortable with that design.

sorry woman or child

From what you have described in that does sound like it would not meet regulations. I found similar in a pub recently (though neither of the two cubicles was accessible, just bog standard loos) and it was very awkward (for both if us) when a man came in shortly after me.

That’s precisely it, yes. I’m used to cafes having one loo comprising a lockable cubicle with all hand-washing and sanitary facilities in it, but this arrangement, with an additional loo cubicle that you have to come out of to wash hands, is new to me. And no, the outer door wasn’t lockable; anyone could come into the hand-washing area.
I’ll write to the local council. Thanks all for the input.

This is the totally safe "INCLUSIVE " unisex toilets in a car park in Mere, Wiltshire.

They just shut the Gents and made the Ladies "inclusive", I'm guessing it's a cost saving, really. They didn't change it at all.

Cheers TRAs. They'll get away with this cos of the 🐂💩 you spread.

Totally mixed. One shared sink. Huge gaps at tops etc etc. Really unsafe.

If some set-ups aren’t legally allowed, would it be possible to organise a checklist of what is required to comply with legal requirements and a blueprint letter to send to respective authorities, reporting all of these?

it would make it easier for women to check and report - and maybe if there were sufficient amounts of refurbishments required , pubs etc would stop doing this?

I emailed the local authority Environmental Health dept with the info/description of the loos I put on this thread, and got this reply:

'Dear DameHelena

I have received your email regarding the toilet facilities at the xxx café. It is permissible for the toilets to be unisex and for the washing facilities to be outside the cubicle.
I hope this answers your question.
If you have any further queries, please get in touch.
Regards
xxx'

Um. They're wrong, aren't they? (they seem so confident, I'm doubting myself)

I think that Liberty store has toilets like this that are single cubicles and shared hand washing.

Unisex ones? And is that lawful? I thought the idea was no one has to be in a space with someone of the opposite sex. I personally find it a bit weird coming out of a cubicle to find a man washing his hands at the sink (men presumably feel the same about me!)

Yes. But this was pre covid.

I felt very uncomfortable washing my hands as the washing area is also just some sinks and taps on effectively a room divider that everyone can see from that area of the store.

I’d be very interested to know what exactly the law is here.

I shared on another thread today about a safety issue in shared restaurant toilets in a France this year.

My 11 year old came out of the toilet cubicle to wash her hands in a tiny room and there was a man using a urinal literally right next to her. It seems that he was as uncomfortable as she was thankfully. But how is this ok??

And is this what we can expect for the UK?

Loads of small cafes have toilets like that. It’s perfectly legal.

Is it, though? That's what I'm trying to get at. This is not the situation like the one described above, with someone using a urinal essentially in the same room as for hand-washing.
As a pp says, surely 'there's a danger that a woman or child could be followed into the loo by a man who then locks the door behind him, or could walk in on an exhibitionist/ lazy thoughtless guy who had 'forgotten' / not bothered to close the cubicle door.'?

I thought they had to have hand washing in each toilet cubicle if it's a small venue with only one or two spaces. I can't think of anywhere that I've been that has a shared space outside the toilets for hand washing.

I've remembered that there's a cinema in London that has 'gender-neutral' loos with the same set-up – a shared space outside the toilets for hand-washing and cubicles with just loo and bin in them.

Also would you be happy potentially hanging around waiting in the shared area if the cubicles are all engaged. Not knowing who is coming out - a man or a woman? 2 men? It’s all wrong.

And worse, your children using this set up.

No, they have self-contained rooms. We are talking here about a room with cubicles and shared hand washing. In the example I experienced it was a very small communal space, I imagine previously it was the ladies. I think some PP are saying that in the examples they came across it was possible to lock the door to the room, as well as to each cubicle.

I was in Denmark last week.

In the Nordic countries gender neutral bathroom facilities tend to be the norm. During my time there I never saw anyone complain and I didn't witness any attacks happen in them. It's just people doing their business without any fuss.

What a pointless anecdote.

Because no one complained to Marg in Denmark, women in the UK should accept gender neutral spaces, despite the evidence that 'unisex' spaces in the UK have proven to be a safety issue.

Thanks for letting us know. hope that you had a lovely trip.

I ran across a very busy road once and didn’t get hit, which proves we should all let children play on the motorway….

But well done Margarita for keeping up the high standard of debate we expect from the trans lobby.

I tend to vote with my feet. When I find this mixed sex toilet arrangement in a restaurant I never go back there. And warn my friends. There is one of these in Edinburgh- a single narrow room with four cubicles, two have a male pic on the door, and the two furthest away have a female pic. You have to squeeze past other people to use the communal sinks which face the cubicles.
I think in future I need to be more proactive and email restaurants about their toilet set up before booking - and explain exactly why they will not be receiving my custom if they are mixed sex.

Great idea @Babdoc

Do they though? All the small and other not so small cafes that I've been in have the sink in the cubicle if the loo is unisex.

I hate the unisex ones though, as DD has epilepsy and I worry that she could seize and no one would know. Much prefer single sex with a gap under the door.

Also the person who mentions Denmark, we found Sweden also had the sink in the cubicles if they were unisex, also had the best family rooms with a big toilet and a cute little toilet. (But that's getting away from the point).