How to help detransitioners

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I want to help people like Sinead and TullipR. What can we practically do other than retweet. I'm talking and sharing and tweeting. Their stories are so distressing. They are so compelling and honest and show utter integrity... what can we do? I feel a bit hopeless. I feel ANGRY for them.

I just want to help them because they have so much fucking integrity.

They want to spread their stories so doing this is helping them.

It's difficult though as not all detransitioners are feminists or understand feminism and there's certainly one right now who sought out feminism and the support of feminists who now claims we were a "cult." And have retransitioned, after some time in a religious community. detrans Reddit are very clear that the space must be for those questioning or detransitioning for a very good reason. This has become so political and binary that it clouds the key issues around safeguarding and gatekeeping.

It's probably of more use to be supporting any cause that is helping to tighten the gatekeeping and safeguarding and champion open discussion around the issues particularly for children. The particular fight the two you mention have is with the medical and psych community, for adults.if it goes wrong for adults, how the hell can this work for children safy?

Detransitioners need to be given space and time to figure out for themselves how they want to shape their responses to what they have experienced.

We can definitely share their stories with friends, family and politicians as the general propaganda is still all about 'shiny, happy, sparkly trans people'.

All of them will be facing complex mental and physical health issues, and this will impact how they perceive and interact with feminism, women's rights etc. Not all of them will necessarily be understanding or supportive of the many ways transgenderism affects women and children. Some may struggle being shunned by the 'trans community' and losing the adoration and support of such friends, so might run headlong into women's groups looking for similar adoration and unquestioning acceptance. If this is not forthcoming, it may prompt them to 'return to the fold' so to speak.

Those who find themselves the unofficial face of the 'detransitoner community' will struggle with all the media attention and the scrutiny of every aspect of their lives and decisions. It's not easy being under the spotlight like that, with little room to make mistakes or any misstep being amplified publicly. While many people will be supportive, there will also be those that mock or say they deserve the consequences of their actions.
I find it really sad that so many detransitioners tend to blame themselves for what happened instead of the greedy and unethical medical establishments that exploited their pain and desperation.

Ultimately they will have to grapple with their inner demons and unresolved issues that led them to believe transgenderism would magically fix in the first place.

As WarriorN said we can focus on strengthening gatekeeping around any kind of medical and surgical intervention for children to help break the cycle.

Yes. Safeguarding and gate keeping. Thank you. As someone who has worked for the NHS most of my life I am outraged and disturbed about the harm that has been done to these young adults.

I don't know what to do with this rage. I can focus on safeguarding though as that is something I know about.

I've been watching debates on YouTube to help try to form an argument. The Battle of Ideas Festival debate on Trans Teen Trend was excellent. There was someone called Joanna was making excellent points on affirmation and reverse socialisation where adults are considered backwards and in need of lessons.

This is exactly what I'm hearing from friends who work with C&YP who exclaim "they're educating me! I didn't have a clue about all the different sexes and genders. It's very different these days you know..."

Thanks for helping me to get some focus.

Thanks @NonnyMouse1337 for your reply. I completely agree. There is so much harm that can come from over-consultation and exposure. They absolutely need space and privacy and to protect themselves.

Well put Nonny.

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A quick look at the detransitioner boards on Reddit will also show that many detransitioners go back and forth in their feelings - they are still working things out for themselves so it's not as straightforward as transitioning back and staying in that one position. So the time and space is essential as Nonnymouse says. Given that so much of this movement is about attempting to control the uncontrollable - ie attempting to play God over the body, the needs of detransitioners will be complex because suddenly they are finding they have no control over side effects for example if they have gone the medical path.

Specialist provision will need to be set up (ideally using the money that was previously pumped into Mermaids etc) all the big companies who have done so need to be held accountable for the funding to help them as more and more of them emerge.

There will be anger. It's going to be messy.

I suspect the most important thing we can do is look out for emerging, sensible orgs run by professionals (in conjunction with those with the lived experience of transition/detransition) and support those orgs. Otherwise we can accidentally become a source of pressure on the individual detrans people?

Of course, there is still the issue of new orgs not yet having a track record so it’s important to be cautious and see who is running them.

We can continue to support the whistleblowers and the professionals who have been victimised for speaking out/trying to stop the harms eg
James Esses, Sonia Appleton, David Bell etc and contributing to the legal funds of detrans people who bravely take legal action (eg Keira Bell).

James’ is part of Thoughtful Therapists: thoughtfultherapists.org

Genspect do free to access group support sessions for detrans people (and for transitioned people who are ‘disenchanted’ but feel stuck and unable to go back’ so hopefully that will become something plus very low cost 121 therapy sessions: genspect.org/beyond/

Dr Az Hakeem has said he intends to focus on detransitioned people in future.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=j1-nURL4mlg

The NHS really need to design some specific pathways for people to detrans (funding should be taken from the transition pot!) and that’s something we can include in our letters to MPs etc.

SEGM: segm.org and Genspect are gearing up to offer an alternative ‘Standard of Care’ to WPATH (seeing as WPATH jumped the shark and made ‘Eunuch’ a gender identity):

The most recent post on the Genspect website is relevant to Detransition

genspect.org/the-battle-for-the-meaning-of-detransition/

I imagine that Transgendertrend and Sex Matters will also have a role in the future provision of detrans support, both orgs are fantastic at anticipating the long term harms (and aren’t explicitly feminist/solely female focused) and LGB Alliance will likely become an important support for the detrans people whose transitions were related to internalised/societal homophobia.

We do need to be careful not to further fuck up traumatised individuals out of misguided good intentions.

This is a US org for both trans and detrans people with the focus on properly evidenced transition medical/surgical care and being able to hold the medical professionals to account when it goes wrong:

www.gccan.org/mission

eg one of their current campaigns is around extending the time period that legal action can be taken (seeing as it can take quite a few years for a regretter to come to terms with their situation and become mentally strong enough to seek legal recourse).

This seems like an important org for people like Scott Newgent who have been horrifically damaged by cavalier surgeons but who feel unable to actually successfully detrans enough to ‘pass’ as their birth sex.

I suspect that orgs that can represent regretters/physically harmed people whether they are detrans or remain in their trans identity are probably the best way forward for repairing some of the medical harms - feminist orgs embracing female detrans people is only dealing with a fragment of the harmed population (and it’s certainly not the job of feminism to sort out everyone’s issues like a giant universal mum!’)

Obvs there is overlap in interests, especially amongst those of us who are mums of ROGD kids and the reidentified women who do genuinely find their tribe in radical and/or lesbian feminism.

These are all excellent points. I have total respect for Keira Bell. I can only imagine the horrible personal cost to her for going public. She has done an incredible thing. Same for Maya F.

OP please consider emailing or writing to your MP and the Secretary of State for Health with your concerns. It doesn’t involve requiring any brave individuals to expose their whole private life to public scrutiny. It doesn’t involve your own identity becoming public either, though you should share your home address with your MP so they know you are their constituent (which means they are more likely to write back).

Better still, add in to that message that you want to make an appointment to have a chat with your MP about your concerns in person. If you’re in touch with a local women’s group active in this whole area ask them if they will also write and ask to meet with the MP if they haven’t already.

MPs need to understand what’s going on here and know that thousands of women are concerned about it. There is next to no discussion of the specific health or social and emotional needs of detransitioned people, who are likely have specific issues depending on how invasive and medicalised (and for how long) their transition was. TT is a good up to date factual source of what research there is as well as giving detransitioners’ experiences:
www.transgendertrend.com/detransition/

Social transition seems to be viewed a lot more lightly by lots of people out there but we shouldn’t underestimate the difficulties of social detransition in this age of social media and online abuse. There is the pressure of potential social stigma and bureaucracy of changing names and records back again. Especially if the person has a GRC.

If the person has got a GRC there’s the awful fact that you can’t revoke a GRC just out of your own choice. GRCs are made out for life- unless you are prepared to say you were a fraudster when you applied to get it. No provision in the law for people to change their minds.

Nobody should have to publicly call themselves a liar when at the time they applied for the GRC, that was their true belief at that time. It’s incredibly discriminatory to GRC holders and I’m shocked that that this law is still allowed to stand. GRA fails basic tests on consent. And considering the heavy political and social pressure on young gender-questioning and ‘trans’ people from incredibly young ages in this space, it makes it even more morally unacceptable to keep GRCs irreversible till death. Who of us expects to have exactly the same views on anything at 18, or 25, or 30, or 45 or 75?

That is just one additional reason why the GRA is not fit for purpose and needs to be reviewed by Parliament, then scrapped. The Equality Act 2010 also needs to be clarified (as set out in the petition linked to below) to make it clear the originally-intended difference between biological sex and gender.

Then when both those legal changes are made then gender non conforming people (whether they consider themselves ‘trans’ or not) will get the same protections as everyone else has, which seems a lot fairer.

You could also consider signing and sharing both of these Parliamentary petitions. Parliamentary petitions don’t make the signatories’ names public, if that’s a concern for anyone.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4688427-repeal-the-gra?page=1

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex

See also Sex Matters’ Equality Act campaign which is well worth following.

Ultimately we’ll have to rely on legal change to shore up rights of women and children. MPs are the only ones who get to vote on it. Only their views will matter at that point. Look at what has just been happening in Scotland. No political party has a pro-women and children party line on this. So giving your MP information now to help them understand these issues is never a waste of anyone’s time.

If your own MP doesn’t respond, then you could write an email to other MPs who chair committees for women or for children, copying in your own MP in for info. Keep your letters polite and where you can, short because they are busy and include weblinks to back up your points so they can find out more.

Just out of interest, OP, how do you feel about detransitioners when they retransition..as most of them do? Do you remain angry, but now for the poor care and hate that they'll inevitably get?

Thanks @Slothtoes and @TheClogLady for all the information.

I have written to my MSPs regarding GRA and spoken to my SNP MSP and made it very clear to my CLP what I feel specifically about Self ID.

I've also been sharing/ retweeting on twitter and fb. I don't know of a women's rights group that's active in my remote area but have considered starting one.

I think we have to be very wary of imposing our own narratives and assumptions on detransitioners who of course will be a very varied group.

For instance on the detrans reddit I've seen someone who said that while they regret some aspects of their transition they don't regret having their breasts removed at all and someone else who said they were now happy to internally accept being female but still liked having the world see them as male. Neither of these would fit comfortably into a narrative which sees all medical changes as inherently negative.

@EvilBee I don't know any detransitioners. I meant what can be done on a wider campaign level I suppose like awareness of the permanent effects of medical transition. Thinking about the rage that I feel it's because the physical harm has been done. I wouldn't feel rage if they decided to Retransition.

I'm seeing now that it is really none of my business as I have zero experience of it and do see the point that @HPFA makes that not all people will have the same feelings about the permanent changes to their bodies.

I am very naïve about this obviously so it's good to hear the things I haven't even considered rather thank just wanting to scoop in and make it all better.

This came up as part of another thread. It is an interesting watch, is very recent and covers some of the reasons people detransition.

As for scooping in - it is human nature to want to find ways to help people who are struggling - why wouldn't you want to help? It is obviously a complex area that needs a lot more research.

I would be very wary of thinking it’s better to do nothing because we dont have direct experience of this. If some people retransition and are happy then that’s great. It’s the ones who detransition and find zero support that I am worried about.

And given the historically unprecedented massive increase in (mostly female) child and very young adult transitions just in the UK that’s going to be quite a few younger or older adults in the coming years.

So where there is structural unfairness- yes let’s try to do something about it.

I do agree and they'll be suffering all the ailments post menopausal women do but in their 20s and 30s.

And many document the poor medical support they're getting via the nhs. I'm following a young woman who went on pb and t at a young age here but since detransition, has found the t acted as a type of antidepressant. She's considering going back on for her "physical" mental health (the boost it gave her) but knowing that the ideology is false. (But has learnt she has to tout the lingo to get it.) So it's not a re transition she's considering as she's still v critical of the pressures and influence that led her to the decision in the first place.

So much is very much about raising awareness among those who are otherwise naive to this, especially if you're in a profession who could be supportive. And active support could be given to any of the orgs mentioned here.

Thanks for this; important research and also by a trans man. Which is helpful politically.

I'm following a young woman who went on pb and t at a young age here but since detransition, has found the t acted as a type of antidepressant. She's considering going back on for her "physical" mental health (the boost it gave her) but knowing that the ideology is false. (But has learnt she has to tout the lingo to get it.)

There are good reasons why the medical profession doesn't prescribe anabolic steroids as a mood enhancer. Some people start anabolic steroids to bulk up and find they also have mood enhancing effects. That doesn't make them safe.

And however much sympathy I have for how this young women has been let down and is still being let down, I am not at all happy about what she is proposing to do. Yes, the NHS is shit on depression. That's not a good enough reason to take anabolic steroids, or to lie to her doctor to get them.

At some point we have to get to grips with the medical ethics and accept that sometimes there can be a difference between what people want right now and what they need. Even people who have been badly let down once, it's still a bad idea to give in out of guilt and let them down again.

As for scooping in - it is human nature to want to find ways to help people who are struggling - why wouldn't you want to help?

Be very careful that you really are helping someone, and not just giving them what they want right now. The most recent episode of the "Gender - A wider lens" podcast is a very moving interview with a young man who was supposedly following the "Dutch protocol" but was allowed to transition physically even though he didn't fit all the criteria. His therapist thought she was doing him a favour by letting him transition anyway. And the therapist was deeply distressed when he came back later with terrible regrets. I wont easily forget hearing this slow spoken serious young Dutch man describe the world famous "gold standard" clinic as "incompetent".

Coming back to detransitioners, people can become used to manipulating the medical profession to get what they want. Is that really healthy?

Why do "they" need your help?

They need specialist councilling and medical care along with support groups with other detransitioners