How are we going to wake women up to the emergency we are now genuinely facing!

[Appalonia]

The Scottish GRR Bill is now potentially bringing self id in through the back door. Keri Starmer has recently expressed similar thoughts. It's highly likely we will have a Labour Gvt in the next few years.. I feel genuinely frightened as to what this will mean for women's rights, spaces, safety etc and all done under the banner of being 'progressive'. We need to have a massive pushback before we get to that point, but how....?

A lot can happen in two years...

I think the tide has turned on people being able to speak more publicly. There will still be some industries where the price for being vocal is too great but in everyday life most people think the whole thing is crazy so starting conversations should be easier.

I think if the GRR has planted a seed of doubt then every news story about the consequences will drive home just how bad this legislation is. Sadly women being harmed in some way is inevitable.

I just feel like we need to have a real life conference of GC women to brainstorm ideas and have a UK wide strategy as to how to combat this. It all feels too piecemeal at the moment and I feel we have a limited window to have a massive pushback to prevent things going too far, before it's too late.

I agree OP it's an emergency. It would be a big mistake to be complacent, to think surely no-one would vote for a party that supports this, and that we still have plenty of time. They would, and we don't.

This needs killing with fire by everyone-both women and men. The kool aid nutters have had a free pass for about the last ten years, sneaking stuff under the radar as per Dentons, but sunlight is now pouring in and no debate is the deadest of dead things. I think it will take all of us to talk and hopefully peak as many people as we can. Bullshit cannot stand.

I think there is a "strategy' emerging. There's Sex Matters, Fair Play For Women, Transgender Trend, Keep Prisons Single Sex, Safe Schools Alliance, For Women Scotland, Conservatives for women, WPUK plus all the groups focused on supporting families (Bayswater, Genspect etc). Plus Fair Cop, Free Speech Union, the Glinner update plus so much of the press stepping away from the grip of the trans groups. All challenging issues in different ways, holding institutions to account but all recognising the importance of maintaining women's sex based rights and safeguarding children? I know there's considerable cross over and co working with some of the individuals and groups.
Not meaning to be complacent - it's terrifying how some of the most dodgy groups / individuals in the world have been given such power to turn society upside down in this way. But I'm also hopeful - maybe naively - that there's such a head of steam building up, aided by the complete lack of self control in every way on the part of trans activists that things will change - albeit after massive damage to so many individuals.

@Appalonia the new Scottish law makes no difference to the EA which is UK wide, and it is the EA that allows single sex spaces, and it clearly says single sex spaces refers to biological sex. Having a GRC saying you are a woman does NOT allow you access to women only spaces.

The Act is perfectly clear.

The problem is not enough groups who could implement the single sex exemption bother to do it, too many groups have had Stonewall like training which wrongly states that a TW has the right to access single sex spaces, and too many groups are for ideological reasons deliberately misusing the EA - eg Edinburght RCC.

And it is probably against the EA for funders to say they will only fund trans inclusive services because they are depriving women of the right to single sex services when there is a need for them. That is why the case Sarah is bringing against the survivor's network will be the most significant for women's sex based rights.

We need to be campaigning for more single sex services as allowed under the EA.

Just think if everything that could be a single sex service was made single sex under the EA from toilets and changing rooms to prisons, having a GRC would count for nothing.

While gender recognition is devolved to Holyrood, the Equality Act - which the new law will interact with – is reserved to Westminster. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tory-mp-claims-opposing-gender-141259085.html

There is a thread on this, but the real threat is if, and more likely when, the TRA's come for the EA www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4703437-whilst-we-are-being-told-that-gra-will-make-no-difference-to-women-please-remember-what-stonewall-are-currently-campaigning-for

And I dont think the fragmented campaigning is helping. And even if it was, unless something really remarkable happens the Tories will lose the election, so Labour will get in whatever their politics. And women will be expected to take our place in the queue, ie at the back, whilst other "more important" issues are prioritised. ie what men say is important.

I think the first problem is this is presented by the other side as an insignificant women's issue that only a small number of feminists care about.

The second is that to everyone out of the loop, we sound like insane QAnon adjacent alarmists. I've spent some time especially the last few days talking to people on SM, and they are very badly informed. They can't grasp the consequences. The issues sound extreme to them.

They don't want to think about it or have to do anything, they want to hide in the crowd and hope it will turn out OK.

I think a lot of groups of women are going to have to stop with the oh we can't support that woman she's got the wrong insert issue of choice, politics, connections, political persuasion.

There's a poem on the FWR women of the year thread that is written by another poster, I'd post it here but, sock puppet and all that. It's not the best but it's about the fact that all of us politics, religion, blah blah blah all of us:

We are woman.

And we need to remember that and come together and support our sisters

Or we are doomed.

Agree that although there are a lot of groups doing great work, it is v fragmented. We need an overall strategy to get the word out much more and also for groups to overcome their differences and work together. It's such a shame that the WEP are worse than useless, as they could have been a great vehicle for organising and coordinating a pushback.

If we keep fighting with ourselves then we are doing the trans right activists work for them. They can just point and go don't listen to them they can't even agree amongst themselves what they stand for and what they want.

It all needs stripping right down, right back to the only thing that matters.

We have one thing in common every one of us is a woman.

And for this battle that is the only thing that matters because it is the one thing that binds us.

the new Scottish law makes no difference to the EA which is UK wide, and it is the EA that allows single sex spaces, and it clearly says single sex spaces refers to biological sex.

It doesn't, though, does it? That's the problem. Lady Haldane ruled just a few weeks ago that if the people who wrote the Act intended "sex" to mean "biological sex" they'd have written "biological sex".

The lack of clarity is why there's a petition to ask parliament to clarify that "sex" in the Equality Act means "biological sex".

I don't know what the answer is, but I share your concern, OP.

The problem is not enough groups who could implement the single sex exemption bother to do it, too many groups have had Stonewall like training which wrongly states that a TW has the right to access single sex spaces, and too many groups are for ideological reasons deliberately misusing the EA - eg Edinburght RCC.

I think the bigger problem is funding being dependent on "inclusivity". Many women's organisations would like to remain single sex but their funding will be pulled if they try to do that so they either capitulate and hope they can manage men accessing women's services or they stand their ground, run out of money and cease to offer any services.

It doesn't, though, does it? That's the problem. Lady Haldane ruled just a few weeks ago that if the people who wrote the Act intended "sex" to mean "biological sex" they'd have written "biological sex".

This is just more bullshit isn't it? The act didn't specify "biological sex" because until about 5 minutes ago no one thought sex was anything other than biological. What other kind of sex is there?

@IIwantToRetire the problem is that when we do state that we are single sex we lose a lot of funding, firm many funding streams, get special attention from some very determined people.

And many single sex organisations have been 'infiltrated' by those who were awakened and emboldened by Stonewall before many women's centres became aware.

We remain on the back foot. No matter what the Act actually says.or how robustly we defend ourselves.

Currently the starting point in any formal debate is not that single sex means single sex but that it would always include some men, because.....

I don't know OP, I have thought this many times myself over the last few months. I don't know what will wake people up, if they can't see the problems inherent in this crap, it's because they don't want to see.

If you think about it, even on a majority female website like MN, when we try and bring this out into Chat or AIBU, we get told by many women to go back into our grubby corner - they don't want to hear it.

Maybe it's too big and scary to think about, or it hasn't penetrated their protected bubble yet. I can't understand how and why women aren't angry and scared that our legal status is under threat. The media have really done a number with this one, painting us as hysterical harpies to be ignored or ridiculed.
I do think unfortunately it will have to get much worse before it gets better. And the claw back will be painful and difficult.

Going back to the original question: "How are we going to wake women up to the emergency we are now genuinely facing"?

Well, how, indeed? It's like shouting into the wind.

I have a proposal: we pick our battles, and then SHOUT ABOUT THEM, very loudly, in the hope the shouting is heard.

What are the most important things we feel should be stopped? The most crazy, damaging but true things that are happening, that most sensible people would never support if they stopped and thought about it? And possibly don't currently believe, because it sounds too crazy?

My list includes:

1. Known sex offenders being allowed to self-ID.

2. Affirmation-only gender "care".

3. Lack of awareness that males really are physically stronger than females.

4. Promotion of sexist gender stereotypes to children.

Not comprehensive at all, but easy to focus on, keeping the messaging simple.

Any thoughts on this as a campaigning blueprint? And what sort of political organising would be required?

(Sorry if I'm not explaining myself very well. Just want to get the conversation started!)

Even the 1997 Labour government with its massive majority found things like the fox hunting ban problematic so first lesson is Don't Give Up.

After that:

Start preparing for what looks a likely to be a majority Labour government - support groups like LWD and don't indulge the fantasy that Labour can "never" win an election because of this issue.

Remember that the "official" Labour position - which is to reform the GRC but retain single sex exemptions - is broadly in line with public opinion. The issue is how Labour would define these terms.

So instead of endlessly trying to trap Labour representatives with "what is a woman" ( which is starting to make people raise their eyebrows" ask questions about the specifics.

"Will the Labour Party continue to uphold the position that a GRC does NOT change sex in all circumstances?"

"Can you guarantee that centers like the Beira center will continue to be legal under a Labour government?"

"What is the Labour position on the Cass Review?"

All this will be much more helpful in getting specific commitments on record than endless questioning on whether women have penises.

Every stupid video going viral like that idiot and his ‘period pains’ will help us.

The biggest thing we can do is to make this a subject of conversation in every home, in every business, in every newspaper. Not a polite, curated conversation. A warts and all conversation.

We are on the way to breaking the back of imposed silence, of imposed No Debate. Now we have to show up Be Kind for what it is: submission to coercion and bullying.

People are still unaware of the repercussions. Men think that if a man rejects masculinity then the only other option must be that he is a woman. Women think "Awww poor thing we should Be Kind" (OK, wild generalisation, but not so far from the truth if you talk to people who are unaware of the realities of the trans ideology).

People are still afraid of the consequences of their honesty. We're getting there with this as well, thanks to the heroines who stand up for their rights and ours. And thanks also to the men who also stand up for what is right. But people still see the punishment dished out to them and are scared.

Fear, innocence and ignorance are used against us. Sunlight and courage are needed.

Any woman only conference is shut down either by bullying the venue :- hence more balls than millwall, or masked people with smoke bombs or the worst one cos I was there and it was petrifying, kick the windows and scream and chant, all whilst the police stand there and do nothing.

That and any time we try to push these issues into aibu, chat, other well used parts of the site we are called transphobic and told to go back to our corner.

Not enough women care or they are incredibly naive and think we are talking about a few men, effeminate men who pose little risk.
For some strange reason they cant compute self id means even the worst criminals can now enter any previously woman only space. I have been yelling about this for actual decades now. I'm about worn out with the yelling, lost my voice, fed up of women trying to belittle me for what has in fact come true.

You may not have noticed but there are vanishingly few spaces we can talk about this on the internet. So how will we even get a conference if we cant advertise it?
Who will host it?
Who will do security for it?

If you did it online how will you keep tra out?

Many more questions.
But if someone can sort out issues like that, I will put it on my social media, I will tell people I know, I will yet again write to MPs and local councillors etc.

This is the Tories only hope. They will be going for it with this long overdue conversation. Labour will either be grown up enough to engage in it sensibly or it won't. In which case , bring it on. I'm a lifelong Labour voter since 1987 up to Corbyn.

In answer to your OP, I am not sure. I and others have been trying since 2015. It's better than it was. Some of the groups mentioned in this thread have been around since then but only just coming to the awareness of many. I hope very much that it's not too late. It's so entrenched in industry and institutions. I fear it will never really go away now and we will constantly be fighting fires. I'm drained tbh.

^ Yes, absolutely - this! ^

Because this is the reality we have to deal with:
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