Talking to teens

[Elnetthairnet]

How to talk to teens? Huge argument/debate with my DD and DS regarding my opinions and they just can’t seem to accept any discussion. If you say you’re the opposite sex, you are. Despite them also saying that it would be ridiculous for me to say I was a different race or a cat, even though it is as impossible for me to be either of those things as it is for me to change sex.

How do they reconcile this doublethink and how can I challenge it? They also said ‘why does it even matter to you?’ I said because as a member of society and as a mum it bothers me that young people are being offered treatments where the long term effects are not yet known and the benefits are uncertain - I think this is unethical and any treatment should be evaluated. But this idea is apparently also ridiculous and I should just accept that the treatment will help people feel better as they have body dysmorphia. Pointed out that many grow out of this without radical treatment and that we don’t use affirmation of beliefs for other people with body dysmorphic conditions such as bulimia. ‘You’re just wrong Mum, this is different’

argh! Is it even worth having these discussions? I am just seen as an out of touch terf. How have kids been so completely and utterly brainwashed? My kids are both straight and very much present as their biological gender, so this isn’t personal to them either. I am feeling a little bit of misogyny from them as well which is disappointing- my opinion is not valid because I am a middle aged white woman so what do I know.

I've just been watching university students talking about their beliefs. I am so sorry for any parents that have had to deal with this.

I am watching that film now. Those girls at the beginning ! Ye gods I feel utter fury. Selling down the river other women whose lives they’re have no idea of. Two girls highly unlikely to ever end up in prison, happily supporting men being put in with female prisoners. Also the stupidity and lack of any critical thinking - how do people like this even get admitted to University?

There were loads of erm... and ahhs..., when talking about gender identity in that You Tube clip. Was it because they are confused themselves? And/or realise deep down that they are waffling nonsense, but have to say it for the approval of others/not to be called a transphobe?

Critical thought was missing entirely, and overall , the brainwashing is clearly evident. 😯

Don’t know where the random they’re in my post came from. Should have been they, obv.

Evilbee reminds me of Shaggy from Scooby Doo - every other sentence starts with 'Like...'

(Sorry to derail)

In all seriousness, I think keep asking them questions is the way forward.

Don't let it become a massive argument.

I feel your pain at the teenage lack of respect, but they are meant to think their parents are stupid - it's part of breaking away to form an independent identity so try not to take it to heart.

Find anything that you have in common/can tolerate and keep doing it with them to build the positive side of your relationship. Stronger relationships make a better foundation for robust discussions! Good luck x

I hope my story will bring hope. My oldest DD is recently graduated and soon to start college. We live in a very progressive, large city and her schooling was heavy on the gender unicorn, etc. (though she's old enough to have missed the captured sex ed my younger DD got). DD1 has been TWAW since age 11, crying at times because she feared her dinosaur mom would lose friends and jobs because I'm so "transphobic" (oddly, she wasn't worried her dad would lose out but that's cause she's smart about sexism).

I've been drip feeding her my thoughts for years, but primarily focused on general misogyny. She has countless friends with pronouns requirements, and gender identities. I always showed these kids lots of love, feeding them and trying to make them feel comfortable in our home.

Because she's been exposed to so many young people like this, the "getting to know trans people" plus hearing my feminism plus my progressives politics put her in some deep and painful cognitive dissonance. For years, we agreed to disagree.

About a year ago, a friend who wanted vir/vamp pronouns made her roll her eyes. Progress, I thought.

When she'd tell me about a new friend to meet up with, I'd always ask their sex. This used to annoy her but then one day she didn't get mad and said quietly, "you ask me that to know if it's a man because you'd give me different guidance, right? You just want to protect me from men who could hurt me."
She was starting to connect dots.

A family member her age is a male bodied transwoman (no surgery, just hormones). This person's mental health has always worried us. But this person's misogyny and lack of empathy for women started to piss her off. Yup, I thought. Even our loved ones can't escape it.

Then, this year, her maturing mind met Dylan Mulvaney. She had a massive peaking over the summer and now can't stop talking to friends about it, sadly losing one male friend in the process. I even got a "mom, you were right". I didn't gloat (damn, that was tough).

Once she started opening up to other 17, 18, 19 and 20somethings, a strange thing happened. All her mom's arguments (fine tuned on MN, thank you witches) started peaking other young women and she found a lot of her friends thought the same but were terrified to speak up. She found this latter example was particularly true for her less privileged friends, especially women from very patriarchal cultures, kids of immigrants and Black and Native Americans (we're in the states, so different social issues, but quite relevant when you consider intersectional feminism).

I can't tell you my relief, my pride and my renewed hope that this isn't a lost cause. Don't give up one the young ones. They will get there eventually. We don't appoint teenagers to government posts for a reason! They need time to mature. Once they do, they become ambassadors. Keep the hope!

Different ethnic groups, but similar experience of my DD's friends who come from more patriarchal cultures. I think, however, it's less "this won't fly at home," and more that these girls know up front and personal the effects of deeply sexist attitudes because of their backgrounds. IME, they can recognize misogynistic behavior faster than their white Northern/western European descent counterparts. It's also probably galling to them to see white males claim oppression points.

Yes! Absolutely this too @Delphinium20

It's fascinating, isn't it, how completely sheltered some of the white grievance-seeking kids are.

@Delphinium20 loved your post on you & your daughters experience. So true the maturity comes with time & experience.
I think it was Helen Joyce said "it's painful to recognise & process that we are the sex that are (generally) physically weaker, which means we're the sex that gets raped more, beaten to death, then when(if) we have children, get sacked, career stymied & paid less".
All this after a pornified culture which promotes body hatred in young women - totally understandable why young women would step out of that if they could (we know they can't, we're in a place of madness that tells them to sidestep patriarchy rather than fight it).
But life comes at you fast when you're a woman, we learn, we change.

Completely agree with that assessment.  thanks @WhineyVaginey

…he talks about the influence of TikTok on young people

My experience is that it’s not just TikTok but all bloody social media that feed the trans is beautiful algorithm. I cannot talk to my DD anymore because that just sends her back to SM to find more arguments in response to my questioning of TWAW. I’m so scared about her future but really don’t know how to break through the cult dogma.

It is frustrating beyond extreme that the likes of Mae Martin or Ash Harding and other narcissistic it’s all about me ‘celebrities’ post all their bloody post mastectomy photos on their Instagram accounts with thumbs up and all smiles. Fine, do what you like to your own bodies, but please get the F off the internet influencing young impressionable girls and teens and teaching them to hate their own bodies.

@DrBlackbird To me it sounds like a good thing if your dd is looking for answers on social media as it means she isn't outright dismissing what you are saying.

To help circumnavigate social media algorithms, you could try regularly deleting the cache and history for all browsers on any device that your dd uses.

It's a shame we have celebrities also sucked up into this madness. Will these celebrities who have modified perfectly healthy bodies feel the same way in 3-7 years time? I suspect for the majority, the answer is going to be no.

It's heart breaking to see what's happening to these youngsters. Gender identity theory is toxic,