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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women of Scotland - take heart. This farce will end.

26 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/12/2022 16:24

Thank you to poster TheirEminence for bringing to my attention this wonderful piece from Barracker a while ago.

It can be difficult at times to stay positive, especially on days such as today. But no amount of coercion and compulsion can change the truth or reality. There are only two sexes. Men can never be women. And this farce will end. We women will see to it.

”We need to start from first principles once more and demand a Sex Discrimination Act all over again. Written properly for our sex, to recognise and protect our sex properly. A law written for female people that recognises the reality of being female. A law with no opportunity within it, none at all, for the preposterous Trojan horse of identity to allow men to claim to be women or to punish any woman for refuting that lie.

Let our law reflect the reality before us, and let it serve the humanity it is designed to protect. No law ever created to sustain a lie will prevail in a humane society.

Men remain men, male from birth to death, in every last cell of their bodies, whatever proclamations they make, whatever certificate they obtain, and whatever lies they compel others to recite. Male. Men. All of them. Without exception.
And the days of men believing they can use the words of our sex to mask their own sex are numbered.

This farce is going to end. I'm never going to stop until it does. And I'm only one of many, many women. And if I don't get to see the conclusion, my daughter will grow up, take up the banner and she will carry it forward. The monstrous injustice done to women by granting men the right to have our sex as their identity is going to be torn down piece by piece by female hands until it's rubble and dust.

Female is not your identity, woman is not your identity, we are not a feeling, a status, an idea.

We are the female people they will never be, the female sex they will never know, the female bodies they will never have. We are female. We will not be owned, we will not be their costume, we will not be their human shield and we will not be a tool of their validation. Men planted a flag in female and claimed ownership of it as if it was inert ground in the Wild West there for the taking by any claimant who fancied it. But female isn't earth to be claimed. No certificate grants you ownership of what isn't yours and what cannot be owned. We are people, and we're rejecting your claims. You can't have us and you can't be us. Female IS us.

It's ending. The end has already begun. This era was always destined to crumble and it already is, visibly and loudly. For every woman fatigued by this fight ten others are standing up, joining it and saying, enough now. Enough.

One day, before too long, this men's movement to claim our sex as their own, will tip, crumble and slide into oblivion. It has been obvious for some time that the end has already begun. People are now talking, thinking, refusing to comply. And all the desperate buttresses men are creating to try to hold it all together won't be enough. No hate crime law can stop this movement ending. No censorship of women's words will be enough. No escalation of violence will stop it. All this hatred of women we're seeing, all these lobby groups that maneuvre, all the millions pumped into campaigning to keep it going? The threats, the coercion, the constant bombardment of everything women have ever built? All are blatantly desperate attempts to draw out the dying process which is already happening before our eyes. These are death throes of a movement that is already dying. Even if it takes years, and aggressively lashes out as it dies, its death is inevitable, and it has already begun.

Men are not women. They never will be.

Nothing, nothing in the world will ever be enough to sustain this lie that men are women. There isn't enough force in the world to overpower the truth for anything but a fleeting, transitory moment in time. We're the ones living through that moment. But we'll see the end of this. It's already happening.”

Barracker, MN, 13 March 2021

OP posts:
CatherineNotSoMuch · 22/12/2022 16:39

Thank you for this. It's the clearest, most eloquent post on the subject I've read. It speaks for so many of us. Although I'm not surprised by today's bill being passed, I'm now more afraid than I was before. But I agree with you, this will come to an end.

Until then, I will protest and I will not comply. When it comes my time to deal face to face with a man telling me he is a woman, I will not be told what my response is to be.

Mistletoeandwinee · 22/12/2022 16:41

👏👏👏 agree completely.

toomuchcarrotcake · 22/12/2022 16:45

Long time lurker here! Barracker has it exactly. We will overcome this madness.

Whereareyourshoes · 22/12/2022 16:55

💚🤍💜

HirplesWithHaggis · 22/12/2022 17:05

From what I have read, they're already losing teen interest. Multiple Personality is the in thing with the Tik Tok generation. (Hopefully less damaging in terms of medication and surgery)

IwantToRetire · 22/12/2022 17:11

The problem is that the EA already allows singles sex provision, under which a GRC is disregarded and the person treated as being of the sex they are born.

Can we grapple with the reality which is that despite this women's groups, not just in Scotland choose not to use this to support women, or deliberately misuse as in the case of Edinburgh RCC. And as we know from that regulators dont care.

And number of institutions could exert their right to women only services, eg health providers (and prisons?) but choose not to.

So even if somehow the EA was more explicit, we have got to face what is really happening that a large number of people, not necessarily TRAs, do not value what women think or want.

So unless we can change that mind set, which not just Stonewall and all the media groveling acquiescence to it, we will continue to see respect for women's sex based rights recede further and further.

I am not underestimating what is happening at a Government level, but this could only happen because by and large not enough people care about women.

Needmoresleep · 22/12/2022 17:15

We need to make sure we are heard.

Protest, write, support court cases as best you can. But we also need to join parties and be part of the decision making.

I started with Greens because the environment matters, but they were not for me and I was not for them. (Some bloke phoned, seemingly trawling for Councillor candidates, only to confirm that my GC views were not acceptable and cancelled my membership.) Labour and LibDems sounded like more of the same so it’s the Tories. So far a good Christmas lunch in surprisingly good company, and a chance to question the MP. He started by wittering about toilets, but he and others then agreed that single sex spaces in prisons etc were essential to protect vulnerable women. People seemed aware of the issue but unaware of why it is so all encompassing and so important.

Most of the parties seem to have some version of ‘ask her to stand’. So do. Women will disagree on all sorts of issues, but we agree on safeguarding and our right to define ourselves. A century ago a social diversity of women campaigned for women’s suffrage. Now we need to do it again, recognising each other in green and purple.

HirplesWithHaggis · 22/12/2022 17:22

In Scotland we have two parties who know what women are, Independence for Scotland (ISP) and Alba. If you don't want indy, you can still vote "no" if indyref2 ever happens, but in the meantime they both have pretty solid policies.

waterwitch · 22/12/2022 17:37

Charities/women’s groups etc won’t use the EA to maintain their single sex status because then they don’t get funding. It’s not just the legal framework that needs to be clearer, but also the funding requirements need to be challenged

BlackForestCake · 22/12/2022 18:23

Perhaps this is the scenario:

Sturgeon: The evil Tories are challenging Scotland’s right to let rapists into women’s prisons! Fight with us for independence! Then we will have a truly Scottish government with absolute maniacs like Maggie Chapman and Mhairi Black in power unbounded by any London laws!

Scottish people (flabbergasted): Uh, no.

Sturgeon: See, sadly there is just no appetite for independence at the moment.

Sturgeon (18 months later): resigns to become Women’s Commissioner at the UN at $1.5m a year

dropthevipers · 22/12/2022 18:28

BlackForestCake · 22/12/2022 18:23

Perhaps this is the scenario:

Sturgeon: The evil Tories are challenging Scotland’s right to let rapists into women’s prisons! Fight with us for independence! Then we will have a truly Scottish government with absolute maniacs like Maggie Chapman and Mhairi Black in power unbounded by any London laws!

Scottish people (flabbergasted): Uh, no.

Sturgeon: See, sadly there is just no appetite for independence at the moment.

Sturgeon (18 months later): resigns to become Women’s Commissioner at the UN at $1.5m a year

....but the UN has a track record of not hiring nutters.

Abhannmor · 22/12/2022 18:43

All too plausible @BlackForestCake . But my tenner is on Amnesia International. The Irish branch is doing so we that the grand daughter of Amnesty's founder has condemned their misogyny.

IwantToRetire · 22/12/2022 20:13

Shona Robison (I think) was interviewed on Radio 4 PM today (and was surprised that ED didn't gloat) but he went out of his way to ask about the EA and single sex exemption. She said it still applied.

So agree with comment up thread about funders also influencing decisons taken by women's groups, and going for the cheaper generic groups (as happened in Brighton and elsewhere).

The law is clear. But not enough people, including funders, care about it. After all it is just women. They will just have to put up with it.

We dont need to make the law clearer we need to ask our MPs / MSPs why for instance prisons aren't allowed to implement the single sex exemption. And why Girl Guides who could, chose not to.

Maybe in some strange way if Scotland is having GRC by self identification it will make it easier to say the EA must apply to any scenario where women and girls are vulnerable.

I think what the SNP with Greens and Labour did was shameful and made a mockery of representative democracy.

But it has not stopped the opportunity for single sex exemption. This isn't happening because people cant be bothered or dont care.

Somehow we have to find ways to make them care.

BettyFilous · 22/12/2022 20:18

HirplesWithHaggis · 22/12/2022 17:05

From what I have read, they're already losing teen interest. Multiple Personality is the in thing with the Tik Tok generation. (Hopefully less damaging in terms of medication and surgery)

I don’t know about that. I heard on a podcast - possibly Heather Brunskell-Evans on Meghan Murphy’s Feminist Current - that one MPD female teen Tiktoker says she is pursuing hormones and surgery to placate her ‘male alter’. 🙁

HirplesWithHaggis · 22/12/2022 20:58

FFS. 🙄

pieceofpasta · 22/12/2022 22:26

I think this is brilliant. I also think we need to start wearing visible signs of the suffragettes everywhere. We need to start doing what they did.

dcbc1234 · 22/12/2022 22:30

HirplesWithHaggis · 22/12/2022 17:22

In Scotland we have two parties who know what women are, Independence for Scotland (ISP) and Alba. If you don't want indy, you can still vote "no" if indyref2 ever happens, but in the meantime they both have pretty solid policies.

The Scottish Conservatives mostly make the right noises on these issues. No need to vote for a pro-Indy party which has no seats anyway.

HirplesWithHaggis · 23/12/2022 01:16

Some of us could/would never vote Tory.

DdraigGoch · 23/12/2022 02:14

How much difference will this new act actually make? Most of the things we are warning about are already happening. Girls are being forced to share PE changing rooms with boys, men are being admitted to women's prisons etc. Pretty much all of this without anyone ever asking for a GRC. It already was a de facto free-for-all.

So what is changing, can someone please explain what new threats are posed? I'm sure that the lawyers on here can understand this better than I.

Cheekymaw · 23/12/2022 02:34

As a Scottish wummin in England who dreams of moving back one day, I am horrified. How f ing dare they? I am so bloody angry. I hope all of those MSPs who voted for this rue the day!

NonnyMouse1337 · 23/12/2022 07:55

DdraigGoch · 23/12/2022 02:14

How much difference will this new act actually make? Most of the things we are warning about are already happening. Girls are being forced to share PE changing rooms with boys, men are being admitted to women's prisons etc. Pretty much all of this without anyone ever asking for a GRC. It already was a de facto free-for-all.

So what is changing, can someone please explain what new threats are posed? I'm sure that the lawyers on here can understand this better than I.

It entrenches it in law and makes it harder to challenge or reverse. But hopefully this will be the wake-up call that some people need - seeing sensible amendments being voted down and every political party apart from the Conservatives eager to appease predatory men by throwing out safeguarding.

OP posts:
Igmum · 23/12/2022 09:08

❤️ Barracker. I'm heartened by some of the critical comments I hear, though Helena Kennedy was full on what-about-the-suffering-TW on the Today programme this morning. Why on earth is this an answer to questions about women's rights? It's not Top Trumps FFS

Floisme · 23/12/2022 09:45

Labour Party and MPs in England are keeping curiously quiet about this. Of the usual TWAW allies, I've only spotted Dawn Butler tweeting approvingly. Can't see anything Angela Rayner, Stella Creasy, Lisa Nandy or even Alex Sobel. It's almost as if they don't want England to notice what's going on but it can't be that, surely?

Abhannmor · 23/12/2022 12:22

Was looking at Twitter just now. Very heartening ratio.

Just one caveat : there were quite a few comments saying eg ' Devolution must be abolished ' and 'this is what happens when you let children vote'

This presumably from supporters of the Conservative and Unionist Party. I can't see this winning hearts and minds in Scotland. Particularly given the state the Westminster government is leaving the UK in.