Secretary of State for Scotland looking at using Westminster powers to overule gender recognition bill

[fromorbit]

Alister Jack has said he is willing to consider blocking the Gender Recognition Reform Bill under Section 35 of the Scotland Act.
twitter.com/JournoStephen

Detailed Review of the Legal case that powers that could be used:
ukconstitutionallaw.org/2022/12/21/michael-foran-sex-gender-and-the-scotland-act/

In short it seems there are potential good grounds to use Section 35 in this case due to contradictions in the legislation. [Lots of speculation that this was this Sturgeon's aim all along create legislation so bad it would be overturned and increase support for Indy? However I think this is just a case of pure ideology combined with incompetence.]

Writing into your MP especially if they are a Tory would be a good move at this point.

@Babdoc I get that there is opposition to this bill iñ Scotland, and that the majority don't actually want it. What, I guess, scares me is how little difference this seems to make.

It also makes me think that as well as ranting on here, talking about my concerns with friends etc I need take more concrete steps to prevent a similar situation in England.But my MP is Labour and doesn't seem to get it, not that she's in a position to influence much. And my city will never elect the Conservatives even if I decided to vote for them which I don't want to do (and have never done).

Just feeling helpless.

Worth looking at the thread in AIBU at the moment, and one or two here - there are women and men on those threads saying "shit are you serious?!" as they read. And women share the evidence, and they are horrified to find it's true.

They don't know. This was always the plan, it's never been hidden. The cosy cups of tea in back rooms, the legislation tucked away behind other legislation where it wouldn't be noticed, the aim was always to do this before people realised what they were sleepwalking into. It is that pernicious.

The UK women have thrown a spanner in the works because we have talked about it. A lot. We've shouted. We've raised awareness. And we've had here (God bless you Justine). But we are still needing to spread the word constantly. Evidence. Show and share the evidence. Tweet and retweet the petition for Westminster to make 'sex' mean exclusively biological sex.

If people think that this isn’t going to be used against Sturgeon at every opportunity then I think they are badly mistaken.

It feels like silly games to me.
The SNP get to claim how terrible Westminster is to overrule them and add it to reasons fir independence.
Westminster gets to use it to demonstrate how important the Union is.

Maybe that's the whole reason behind this. 🤷‍♀️🤬

If one of you clever and literate women would kindly put up a copy of your correspondence to your MP, I would really appreciate this to use as a help for my email. My MP is David Davis and I'd like to hear his response on this.

So many people really don’t know what it’s about. I know when I’ve mentioned it over the past few years, it has sounded completely insane (Challenors, Yaniv,…) and often it’s taken a long time before people actually see what you’re talking about. And even now, depending on the papers you read or the brief headlines you scan, you have no idea of the negative impact on women and children. Women’s rights are reframed as anti-trans. Asking questions around safeguarding of children is now transphobic. Refusing any sex offender a GRC and a falsified birth certificate is now bigotry.

Anyone have an opinion as to whether proportional representation in Scotland has made it easier to pass of this unpopular and dangerous piece of legislation? According to Wikipedia of 129 MSPs, only 73 represent geographic areas. That means 56 MSPs or 43% do not. It would be interesting to see a voting breakdown.

I've seen the post from fromorbit now thanks,

I know it was suggested ages ago that they were using this as a way to pick a fight with the English parliament and scream unfair and demand another shot at Independence if they blocked it…and I don’t know if that makes me feel any better if it is true, that would mean that they have used women, children and trans people as pawns. Either way, this is going to get very messy.

If the Greens and been as effective on environmental issues as they have been on the destruction of womens rights then we would have some decent policies for tackling climate change in place by now. Imagine starting out with a mission to save the planet and finishing with the obliteration of rights for more than half the population. They're more toxic than nuclear waste.

I get that there is opposition to this bill iñ Scotland, and that the majority don't actually want it. What, I guess, scares me is how little difference this seems to make.

It scares me too. The women of Scotland put up a great fight but no one cares or is listening. I hope all the campaign groups in Scotland aren't feeling too despondent this evening.

Either way, this is going to get very messy.

Absolutely! The Sex Matters analysis upthread shows that this ridiculous bill has created a lot of very complicated problems that won't be easy to resolve

I have some bad news for you all: this is how politics works on every issue.

Lobbying and corruption.

Look at the things you see protest marches about, it’s always the causes that are losing. Even when those causes are popular.

Really powerful interests don’t bother with protests, they go straight to the people with political power and they help make policy, quietly, out of sight of public discussions.

Anyone have an opinion as to whether proportional representation in Scotland has made it easier to pass of this unpopular and dangerous piece of legislation?

If we had first past the post, the SNP would have an absolute majority. They wouldn't have to listen to the Greens, but they have plenty of extremists and fanatics in their own party.

Already written to my MP to support s35 because the Bill incompatible with international obligations (CEDAW), and it seems to makes modifications to reserved matters (many and various but the Equality Act 2010 is cited in commentary).

Asked to meet said MP as well

Doing what I can. We won't wheesht
💜🤍💚

It pains me to agree with you.

I think Sturgeon has badly miscalculated this. Many many indy supporters, including me, will think this is too high a price to pay, and will have seen how badly the Scottish Government have handled this. I used to be a hard yes to indy, I'm a much softer yes now, and I'm certain I'm not the only one considering whether I want indy like this.

As Joanna Cherry said outside the Scottish Parliament yesterday, this is not the Scotland I want.

I hope you’re right. Better than the reverse which is possible.

I hope this is the end of the SNP led by that poisonous toad Sturgeon. She's absolutely destroyed any hope of Scottish independence.

I have just emailed my (Conservative) MP. He responded very positively to my last email on this issue so I’m hopeful that he will raise the matter with colleagues.
I asked him to support any intervention by The Secretary of State for Scotland to protect the UK wide right to single sex spaces.

Dark day.

Evan Davies on radio 4 PM prog follows the discussion about the GRA change in Scotland with report from Afghanistan about girls being excluded from school,
with zero fucking irony or pennies dropping. Presumably he thinks Afghanistani women and girls can solve their problems by just identifying as males???

I'm not Scottish, so take this as you will..

I don’t think the Westminster government should intervene. It sucks for Scottish women and I am so, so sad for you today, but I think involving Westminster will turn it into a tribal issue like it is in the States which stops people thinking about it properly. And as many of us know from our own experience, the one thing that is most guaranteed to make someone move from #BeKind, live and let live to "wait, what?" is thinking about it properly.

I think Scotland, having got into this mess, has to find its own way out again. Anything imposed by Westminster will leave it unresolved in many people's minds and likely entrench existing divisions.

SNP are gambling that most people in Scotland will do nothing about this because of lack of information. The next few years will be where we find out if enough people do care. It could be the beginning of the end of Sturgeon's SNP just as the revolts against May and Boris fractured the Tories. We shall see.

The way I see it Scottish Women have various options, whether this bill is cancelled or not, but all rely on gaining real power back in Holyrood. Either throw in with the Tories and try to gain them more power or fight inside the SNP to overthrow Sturgeon there are 9 MSPs onside, or join the rebels inside Labour and try to get them more pro women or try to boost Alba from near nothing. All will be happening at once. [The Scottish Lib Dems and Greens are lost causes I think]

There is a real possibility of grassroots revolt inside SNP and in Scottish Labour thanks to this bill. You can argue from outside, but if you want to make a real difference it may be best to join and fight from inside like the rebels we saw over last few days you might be able to start a real rebellion with other women and have way more effect. More to the point if the rebels are not reinforced the TRAs will destroy them given time. It is going to be a brutal fight for sure. However I can't see anyway round this. This fight is going to be happening at local level with every choice and internal vote.

Either women retake political parties or they will be erased along with homosexuals. This is pure power politics. Women need to retake every stronghold in Scotland then storm Holyrood. JKR and others can try and build up new things, but until Edinburgh has a women friendly government no-one and nothing is safe. It can be done, IF the clans gather and organise. The leadership is there. We now will see if enough people will rise up.

I'm confused by this a little.

My understanding is that gender reassignment and sex are the protected characteristics under the EA2010. The new Scottish law allows for a quicker process for gender recognition (which I assume falls under gender reassignment?)

I may be being a total idiot, but don't we just need to make really clear that sex and gender are different things? You can be whatever gender you like but spaces, services etc are split by gender not sex?

How badly have I mangled the situation?

It's already a tribal issue; and the consequences for the rest of the UK if the Bill becomes law could be a nightmare. A proper public discussion is exactly what we need, so I very much hope the UK government steps up to the plate.

I hope Westminster intervenes. This scenario is exactly what Section 35 is there for.

I’m appalled at Labour, more than anything. My Labour MSP point blank refused to meet with me to discuss the issue. Her website says to phone to arrange a constituent surgery, yet the phone number doesn’t work. When I emailed, her office said no and ignored my further plea. I made the mistake of voting for her last time. I won’t be making that mistake again.

Then you haven't read S35 of the Act, or considered what else would happen if Westminster does nothing. It's this issue today, what tomorrow? Is the rest of the UK to be ruled by an SNP/Green deal? I don't think so. That's not democracy.