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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First openly transgender woman set to be executed in the U.S. asks for mercy

101 replies

ZombieMumEB · 17/12/2022 12:22

"The first openly transgender woman set to be executed in the U.S. is asking Missouri’s governor for mercy, citing mental health issues.

Lawyers for Amber McLaughlin, now 49, on Monday asked Republican Gov. Mike Parson to spare her.

McLaughlin was convicted of killing 45-year-old Beverly Guenther on Nov. 20, 2003. Guenther was raped and stabbed to death in St. Louis County."

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/first-openly-transgender-woman-set-executed-us-asks-mercy-rcna61846

It is extremely unusual for a woman to commit a capital offense, such as a brutal murder, and even more unusual for a woman to, as was the case with McLaughlin, rape and murder a woman,” Pojmann said.

Could that be because they are male? 🤔They "transitioned" whilst on death row.

Perhaps being trans is the modern version of finding God, in the hope to be spared the death penalty?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:10

The brilliant Laura Richards, criminal psychologist, called out some of the media reporting as manipulative and false.

twitter.com/laurarichards99/status/1610742707554770944?s=46&t=0LeP6gMJ58r8qgotCiqHPg

She got some flak from zealots for "deadnaming" and "misgendering" even though it wasn't a woman who raped a teenager and raped and killed his ex-girlfriend.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:15

Just to clarify, the rape of his ex girlfriend was rape as we understand it in the U.K. sense of the word. And he had no hormonal or surgical treatment so his "transition" amounted to a name and pronoun change. I don't even think there was anything official about it, apparently the death warrant had his legal name.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:17

Also, the wording "openly transgender" is odd. Is that an acknowledgment that they've executed cross dressing men who weren't fully living as "women"?

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 10:20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:10

The brilliant Laura Richards, criminal psychologist, called out some of the media reporting as manipulative and false.

twitter.com/laurarichards99/status/1610742707554770944?s=46&t=0LeP6gMJ58r8qgotCiqHPg

She got some flak from zealots for "deadnaming" and "misgendering" even though it wasn't a woman who raped a teenager and raped and killed his ex-girlfriend.

I like Laura Richards, she speaks common sense.

I'm just gobsmacked on the reporting on this. I'd like to believe it's done on purpose to highlight the absurdity of the situation. But i fear that may not be the case. And if it is it is still incredibly disrespectful to Beverly, and other women who are scared, hurt raped or murdered by Scott and the men like him in this world.

FeinCuroxiVooz · 06/01/2023 10:25

the death penalty is utterly and totally wrong in all circumstances.

I am sure it's true that a turmoil of misogyny, jealousy, confused repression of any traits that might by a sexist mindset be seen as "feminine" and a violent and angry way of interacting with the world might in the same individual manifest first as being a violent rapist and then later after having been caught and maybe given counselling to help understand why he hated women so much might lead the the discovery of a trans identity as a way of dissociating that violence and anger from how the individual wants to reform themselves. trans identities are only possible in the presence of sexist ideas about what manhood and womanhood area, after all. I don't think this is the end of this individual's healing process but any step away from being a murderer and a rapist is a good thing - but a desire to step away doesn't make them actually trustworthy and safe to be around.

clemency rulings in individual cases require you to accept that death is an appropriate sentence in some cases but not this individual one for specific reasons. if there are specific reasons for this individual then the desire to reject their violent past and be a "new person" is relevant, but I don't accept the premise that state sanctioned murder is ever a good choice.

IcakethereforeIam · 06/01/2023 10:37

I suppose you can't blame a man, a rapist and a murderer, facing imminent death to try anything to weasel out of it. It's hardly like his conscience is going to trouble him. I know proponents of self id are convinced that all sexual predators are too scrupulous to go that far! However, news reporters don't have that excuse. That LBC even went as far as reporting him as being 'accused' of the crimes he was tried and convicted of is just vile.

Beverly Guenther deserves better.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:41

That LBC even went as far as reporting him as being 'accused' of the crimes he was tried and convicted of is just vile.

It really is. He never denied that he killed her, or raped her, because the evidence was overwhelming. His legal defence focussed on avoiding the death penalty and getting a lesser homicide charge.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:45

The Guardian omitted both rapes from the story entirely and wrote about him enjoying a dad joke to the last.

t.co/Z7UlpIKDe9

Jessica Hicklin, a transgender inmate, described McLaughlin as a painfully shy person who came out of her shell after deciding to transition.

She always had a smile and a dad joke,” Hicklin said. “If you ever talked to her, it was always with the dad jokes.”

IcakethereforeIam · 06/01/2023 10:55

The 'dad joke' bit is weird, as, in the context, it seems very gendered. Perhaps the journalist was commissioned or instructed to write this up and this was his push back? Or perhaps it signifies nothing and I should stop getting my hopes up.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:59

Agree, it's bizarre. A lot of people on Twitter felt it was trolling.

Oher · 06/01/2023 11:10

I’m absolutely fine with capital punishment.

I have no sympathy for rapists and murderers. Wish we executed them here in the UK too instead of letting them out after a few years to destroy more women and children.

FrancescaContini · 06/01/2023 12:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 10:45

The Guardian omitted both rapes from the story entirely and wrote about him enjoying a dad joke to the last.

t.co/Z7UlpIKDe9

Jessica Hicklin, a transgender inmate, described McLaughlin as a painfully shy person who came out of her shell after deciding to transition.

She always had a smile and a dad joke,” Hicklin said. “If you ever talked to her, it was always with the dad jokes.”

😳

Shame on the Guardian

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 13:08

Oher · 06/01/2023 11:10

I’m absolutely fine with capital punishment.

I have no sympathy for rapists and murderers. Wish we executed them here in the UK too instead of letting them out after a few years to destroy more women and children.

Struggle with this one because I'm biased. If I knew they were 100% absolutely definitely the person that did the crime (mine Obviously I knew it was him so I'd have been quite happy for the death penalty if we had it here in that case). But I've watched to many true crime series were it's obvious they're not the person who committed the crime. And it's because killing even one innocent person is one person too many I don't on principle agree with the death penalty.

But it is a moral dilemma that leaves me unsettled because I want justice to prevail for sill people, whilst having a personal degree of wanting vengeance on those who hurt and kill women.

I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.

nilsmousehammer · 06/01/2023 13:18

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 13:08

Struggle with this one because I'm biased. If I knew they were 100% absolutely definitely the person that did the crime (mine Obviously I knew it was him so I'd have been quite happy for the death penalty if we had it here in that case). But I've watched to many true crime series were it's obvious they're not the person who committed the crime. And it's because killing even one innocent person is one person too many I don't on principle agree with the death penalty.

But it is a moral dilemma that leaves me unsettled because I want justice to prevail for sill people, whilst having a personal degree of wanting vengeance on those who hurt and kill women.

I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.

I struggle too.

Although I grew up with a much older relative who'd worked with the police through the 1940s and 50s and was involved in cases that ended with a hanging. He did not support the death penalty at all, not because he had attention to spare for the perpetrator but because he said to me he'd seen the damage it did to the police and the prison guards involved, the life time impact on them and their families, the suicides that came years later.

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 14:51

The state when it refrains from executions does what a state ought to do in protecting people from having to make such horrendous decisions.

IcakethereforeIam · 06/01/2023 15:37

Even if you're 100% certain of the perpetrators guilt, there's still nuances and mitigations which make it impossible to apply the death penalty evenly.

With some people, it would definitely be a no brainer. I suspect the bulk of the rest are messier.

NeuroWasabi · 07/01/2023 19:46

HootOwlStrikesAgain · 17/12/2022 22:19

Yeah. It's "unusual" for a woman to rape someone. What a genius! When that's literally impossible, because rape requires a penis. I don't understand!

It's not impossible for a woman to rape a man. I know a man who was raped by a much older woman when he was 18 and on a lads holiday in Ibiza. He woke up drunk in a corridor to find her on top of him, he was penetrating her only because erection is an automatic function of the body and isn't under voluntary control.

I'm just pointing out the facts here, I think rape by a woman must be extremely rare because almost all woman would have zero inclination, not just because of biology. Whereas, I'd guess the majority of women have been sexually assaulted by a man.

RoseslnTheHospital · 07/01/2023 19:48

I don't know about Spain, but in the UK that would be a sexual assault, not rape. Both have the same sentencing possibilities if found guilty. The definitions in legal terms does vary by jurisdiction.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2023 19:51

As I clarified earlier in the thread, this was conventional U.K. definition of rape, the only sticking point was whether she was alive or not.

IcakethereforeIam · 09/01/2023 12:09

Article from the Critic by Victoria Smith

thecritic.co.uk/inconvenient-victims/

Of the two cases she highlights, I thought how it would have been reported if Beverly had murdered a tw (leaving aside that McLaughlin transed waaaay after being convicted). I'm pretty sure, nowadays, Beverly still wouldn't have been the focus of the reports, no matter how many dad jokes she told.

NecessaryScene · 09/01/2023 12:20

She totally nails this dynamic:

I understand the impulse here. There’s a type of excessive, visible empathising with perpetrators over victims — providing these are the right type of perpetrators — that flatters the liberal ego. Empathising with Beverly Guenther is a bit Daily Mail, a bit “won’t somebody please think of the children?” basic. Trying to put oneself in the shoes of McLauchlin requires higher-level faculties.

It’s a test: can you overcome your knee-jerk disgust — such a lowly response! — and put the murderer first? Or are you some string-em-up pleb still weeping over some woman who’s long gone anyway? Are you a true progressive, who can see beyond the obvious, boring injustices to get to the ones that really matter, or are you one of the carceral state’s useful idiots?

Boiledbeetle · 09/01/2023 12:49

It’s a test: can you overcome your knee-jerk disgust — such a lowly response! — and put the murderer first? Or are you some string-em-up pleb still weeping over some woman who’s long gone anyway? Are you a true progressive, who can see beyond the obvious, boring injustices to get to the ones that really matter, or are you one of the carceral state’s useful idiots?

Well if it's a test then I failed it Beverley was murdered by a man. That Man has now been executed.

And if that factual truthful statement somehow makes me transphobic.. Meh! I'll stay over here on the right side of history if it's all the same to you.

Thanks but no thanks.

Boiledbeetle · 09/01/2023 12:53

To many, any focus on Beverly Guenther is seen as a transphobic dogwhistle.

They really don't give a fuck, or like women much at all do they. They should have been saying yes he's now identifying as a transwomen but that plays no bearing in this and we must remember what a vile person this person is and we should focus on the victim at this time.

But no..all about the (transwo)man. As always

nilsmousehammer · 09/01/2023 13:30

Anything that risks interrupting The Faith is a dogwhistle.

See multiple religions: look not at anything that may make you doubt. Yada yada.

Pretty much if it's been called a dogwhistle it needs a whole lot of unpacking because it's been identified as something that may engage people's critical thinking.

Boiledbeetle · 09/01/2023 13:53

@nilsmousehammer I'm wondering if 2023 will be the year of transreligious

"Yeah so like I grew up in the Moonies, but I never felt my true self, but since transing to Scientology I feel more like I'm being true to myself! Praise the Cruise!"

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