Alice Dreger v Colin Wright debate sex binary and immutability

[DameMaud]

Interesting one to watch and discuss.

Thanks for posting but it sent my blood pressure through the roof.

I couldn't watch all of it - partly time constraints, partly irritation! So Alice can't define a woman but, post menopause she knows she's still a woman (or maybe is just about clinging on to womanhood) because this morning she had her moustache waxed!!!! Thank goodness for Colin who knew what he was talking about! Also interesting to Google Corinna who regrets having surgery at 19.

I recognised that Corrina. I think they’ve been interviewed by Benjamin Boyce at some point.

Yes sorry Signal .
Probably not the best day today either!!!

I was just surprised about Alice Dreger, (I only knew of her wrt writing about what happened to Michael Bailey) She is a historian not a biologist, yet seems to know an awful lot about DSDs..

I'll watch anything with Colin in, he did really well at keeping things clear and simple I think, and I like hearing people argue well.

i just thought I don't often get to hear these view points argued out in long form and in good faith/calmly (rather than from one side in an article, or on Twitter).
But yes, it was discombobulating and maybe none of us need that right now

Colin's right(!) that edge cases are irrelevant to the binary nature of sex - there are only two sexes regardless of a very tiny minority having features of both or neither.

yet seems to know an awful lot about DSDs..

And yet can't define what a woman is! And then has an opinion on who should be competing in women's sports. How can you have a category if you can't define who should or should not be in it?

Yes. That part reminded me of the senator (?) In US court hearing who said she couldn't define what a woman is as she 'not a biologist'. Alice seemed to be saying she couldn't 'because she is a historian'????

That was in an appointee to the US Supreme Court DameMaud!

I read Dreger's book, Galileo's Middle Finger, and thought it was fascinating. Hahing read it I find her position even more odd, though.

She started out as an activist and advocate for people with DSDs. Got embroiled in the Michael Biggs thing and was subject (if remember rightly) to quite a horrendous backlash. I really don't understand how she can possibly hold anything other than realist views, but here we are!

You can get a second hand copy of her book here
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=galileo%27s%20middle%20finger&sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF--TopNavISS--Results

I read the book, too, and find her opinions now puzzling. But it's become commonplace on Twitter for people to tell me to get more educated about this 'new' science about the biology of sex, to argue that sex is a spectrum etc. Maybe Dreger got the same message and didn't go and do the research (which tells us that sex in humans is still binary and that almost all people with DSDs are still either male or female and that there is no spectrum of sex in any meaningful sense.

But perhaps she has other reasons for her views.

Alice Dreger has been on the right side of science for some years now:

twitter.com/AliceDreger/status/1064259049246601216