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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

VICE News documentary — Families of Trans Kids Are Seeking Sanctuary

53 replies

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 08/12/2022 02:24

I looked to see if there was a thread on this documentary, uploaded to YouTube about three days ago, but couldn't see one — has anyone else watched it? It's about parents of children who've transitioned (socially and, I think, perhaps medically in a couple of cases) in US states which have new laws banning some types of child transitioning practices, and discussing whether to move to states with different laws.

Something I found quite striking when I watched it was how frightened the children seemed to be, and how they articulated those fears in words that sounded like sentences they'd heard from the adults around them. As well as not being shielded from the possibility that their parents and therapists might be punished for helping them (and while I believe that some of the treatments given to these children are wrong, if I did think they were the right thing for a young child, I would try to avoid impressing upon the child that I felt I was taking a massive legal risk by giving them these treatments), some of them seemed to have been given the idea that people wanted kids like them dead, and not just by suicide.

While I understand that some of the motivations behind the state laws in parts of the US may not be the same as the motivations of UK feminists when we discuss child transition, I doubt that many of even the very staunchest of Christian nationalist republicans actually want these kids dead.

The dramatic fear in some of the families was explicitly linked in the documentary to family histories of persecution, including Jewish Holocaust survivors and undocumented migrant families. I get that it doesn't seem fair that one moment, you're happily taking your socially-transitioned kid to the affirming gender therapist and planning puberty blockers and hormones and surgery, because everyone's told you that's the best thing to do, and the next moment you're being told that what you're planning to do is pretty much considered child abuse now. Even worse if you've already started the physical treatments. But it came across to me like they were almost egging the kids on to feel like there was about to be a pogrom any minute now.

Perhaps that was just the editing, I dunno. I can understand that the universal mandated reporter laws would be frightening, with those family memories.

Seeing a kid crying because mum had decided overnight that the whole family had to flee the state with whatever they could carry, so the kid had had to leave their chickens behind which they'd promised would have a safe home with them, though… it makes me wonder how these families escalate to the point where causing this level of terror in the whole family seems reasonable.

The law isn't great, if you're a family in that situation who's already started down that path, but there must be alternatives to letting your kid think that mum and dad could be arrested any moment, and that lots of people want kids like them to die so the family has to flee.

They also mentioned the expense and the difficulty of affording the cost of living in the wealthier "sanctuary states" on top of the cost and upheaval of moving. I wonder how these kids will feel as adults, knowing that the reason they and their siblings were taken away from all their friends and extended family, and their family had to struggle for money, was essentially so that they could transition a few years earlier. Or how the siblings will feel about the years of living in terror and fleeing halfway across the country, in years to come.

I feel for these families; lots of them seemed like nice enough, decent people. If anyone else has watched this I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts.

OP posts:
DaughterOfPsychiatrist · 08/12/2022 10:27

I just found Kimberley Shappley’s Go Fund Me (no linky -MNHQ no likey’!) and on the updates it says the doc in the OP is one of a series.

(Copied and pasted)

“Trans Youth”

Episode 1 (Untitled)

January 2018

“Trans in Texas”
Episode 2
August 2018

“Trans Kids in Texas”
Episode 3
March 2022

“Families of Trans Kids Are Seeking Sanctuary”
Episode 4
December 2022

VICE News documentary — Families of Trans Kids Are Seeking Sanctuary
FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 08/12/2022 10:43

One thing that struck me was Kai's younger brother.

Kai is now the special one - the photoshoot in the park beings this to the fore, poor Kaleb just a spare part looking on while Kai poses for the photos.

I wonder how much the behaviour that got attention (whether negative or positive) once Kai had a younger sibling to compete with has shaped this child's path.

I think going by the GH article someone mentioned above, Kai has two other brothers, presumably older from the way the mum was talking about their potential influence? I don't remember them being present in the documentary, though. Perhaps they prefer not to be involved in the publicity.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 08/12/2022 11:10

This article mentions that Kimberly Shappley has 7 children. In 2017 three were already adults.

www.houstoniamag.com/news-and-city-life/2017/12/transgender-rights-pearland-isd-school-board

In the video in this thread from 2018 an older sister is mentioned who seems to no longer have contact with her mother.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3408173-Kai-Shappley-A-Trans-Girl-Growing-Up-In-Texas

OldCrone · 08/12/2022 11:24

The first thing Kimberly Shappley did to trans her child (aged 3) was to buy him some girls' knickers.

abc13.com/raising-transgender-child-children-lgbtq-lgbt/1393796/

"We tried to make this kid be a boy," said Shappley. Still, Joseph kept seeking out what the girls had and, by the age of three, he was telling everyone he was a girl.

A devout Christian, Shappley prayed while Joseph made shirts into skirts and begged to wear girls underwear -- and asked his family to call him by the name of "Kai."

As a first step down the path to understanding Kai's situation, Shappley bought girls underwear for Kai, though it took her three trips to the store to finally purchase them.

"When Kai came home that day and opened the drawer and saw princess panties, she fell down on the floor with the panties, crying and thanking me that this was the best day ever," Shappley said.

That was after she decided to stop spanking him for saying he was a girl and liking the 'wrong' clothes and toys.

teawamutu · 08/12/2022 11:39

OldCrone · 08/12/2022 11:24

The first thing Kimberly Shappley did to trans her child (aged 3) was to buy him some girls' knickers.

abc13.com/raising-transgender-child-children-lgbtq-lgbt/1393796/

"We tried to make this kid be a boy," said Shappley. Still, Joseph kept seeking out what the girls had and, by the age of three, he was telling everyone he was a girl.

A devout Christian, Shappley prayed while Joseph made shirts into skirts and begged to wear girls underwear -- and asked his family to call him by the name of "Kai."

As a first step down the path to understanding Kai's situation, Shappley bought girls underwear for Kai, though it took her three trips to the store to finally purchase them.

"When Kai came home that day and opened the drawer and saw princess panties, she fell down on the floor with the panties, crying and thanking me that this was the best day ever," Shappley said.

That was after she decided to stop spanking him for saying he was a girl and liking the 'wrong' clothes and toys.

I don't see how no-one in the mainstream reporting isn't calling out the obvious abuse here?

DaughterOfPsychiatrist · 08/12/2022 11:43

My eldest once had a full blown temper tantrum in Dalston Sainsburys over kitchen towel with pictures on Shrek on it.

He did not grow up to live in a swamp with a donkey for a best friend.

I feel so sad for these kids. They are on a track that only goes forwards. Who knows who’d they be without all this fuss and fanfare?

How can you quietly detransitioned when you already have a reputation as a trans TV star and a global LGBTQ campaigner by the age of 10?

and where is the point of blocking a puberty so your child can ‘pass’ as the opposite sex if you have a documentary crew following you around for 5+ years of that child’s life?

IcakethereforeIam · 08/12/2022 11:53

I imagine when transkids are getting a bit blah, fwoabw, 'fleeing from the evil authorities' makes great copy. Crowdfunders aren't going to fill themselves. Need to keep the grift going while the child is photogenic.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/12/2022 11:59

That’s so upsetting. I roll my eyes at adults doing the “people want us dead”/“trans genocide”/“soon they’ll be putting us in camps” nonsense. I find it contemptible.

But adults brainwashing innocent children to actually believe and be frightened by the oppression fantasies which the adults seem, frankly, to enjoy…

god, that’s so sick I don’t have words for it. I suppose it is of a piece with the attitude of enabling adults to “trans children” generally.

DaughterOfPsychiatrist · 08/12/2022 12:11

Totally.

We don’t want to harm kids like Kai, we just think little boys should be allowed clothes/toys from the pink aisle without having layers of adult meaning and culture wars political talking points attached to those clothes/toys.

And we definitely don’t want a pair of princess themed underpants on a preschooler to be the first station on a route that eventually gets to genital amputation.

RambamThankyouMam · 08/12/2022 12:40

The dramatic fear in some of the families was explicitly linked in the documentary to family histories of persecution, including Jewish Holocaust survivors

As a Jew this disgusts me. I can't quite put it into words. To equate being told you can't mutilate your body and poison yourself with wrong-sex hormones with genocide... Inutterably wrong.

Hoppinggreen · 08/12/2022 12:44

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/12/2022 09:33

The kids seem sweet and innocent, perhaps a bit naive/young for their age

I wonder how much of that is puberty blockers, and how much is from the over protective parents.

And how much is Neurodiversity?

LK1972 · 08/12/2022 12:49

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/12/2022 11:59

That’s so upsetting. I roll my eyes at adults doing the “people want us dead”/“trans genocide”/“soon they’ll be putting us in camps” nonsense. I find it contemptible.

But adults brainwashing innocent children to actually believe and be frightened by the oppression fantasies which the adults seem, frankly, to enjoy…

god, that’s so sick I don’t have words for it. I suppose it is of a piece with the attitude of enabling adults to “trans children” generally.

Agree, but what I find really upsetting is the idea of 'beating' your toddler for wanting to play with so-called 'girls toys'! WTF is wrong with these people?

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 08/12/2022 12:50

I hope I haven't mischaracterised the way the interviewees spoke about it Rambam — YouTube creates a transcript and that part is at 11 minutes apparently ("trans use" = trans youth).

VICE News documentary — Families of Trans Kids Are Seeking Sanctuary
OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 08/12/2022 12:51

RambamThankyouMam · 08/12/2022 12:40

The dramatic fear in some of the families was explicitly linked in the documentary to family histories of persecution, including Jewish Holocaust survivors

As a Jew this disgusts me. I can't quite put it into words. To equate being told you can't mutilate your body and poison yourself with wrong-sex hormones with genocide... Inutterably wrong.

Quite.

I've never found the moment in the history of the Third Reich where they suddenly got very, very concerned about the impact of policy on vulnerable Jewish communities and acted to protect them from future harm.

If only they bloody had.

namitynamechange · 08/12/2022 12:54

Also, the bit where one of the children was super excited they would be driving past Dollywood because they love Dolly Parton. Still, trans it all away.

Signalbox · 08/12/2022 13:13

Bloody hell what a mess. Why don't they target the doctors rather than the families?

thecraftyfox · 08/12/2022 13:19

I have named changed for this. But I am a former friend of Heather Crawford, mother of the child in the Texas Tribune article. I am a former friend because I asked Heather if being non binary was actually resolving Cass's issues. From the article it doesn't seem like it is. Cass still isn't able to manage school and is on one hell of a strong anxiety drug.

I also question how much the constant "you are under attack, you are not safe" mantra is causing even more damage. The comparison with the FLDS and The Village is very striking.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 08/12/2022 13:32

Delphinium20 · 08/12/2022 05:08

There are a lot of parallels here with documentaries on polygamist fundamentalist Mormon sects - where children and families (sisterwives) are on the run from the feds. The children and women (child brides) have been told all their lives that the outside world is dangerous (where they exile shunned young men). This fear has been inculcated at a very early age. It's a classic cult tactic.

I think that that's a insightful parallel. Yes the whole believe what we tell you and only what we tell you they're all out to get us thinking definitely has echoes of religious / sect / cult thinking that American parents might well have been exposed to.

Thingybob · 08/12/2022 14:48

Thank-you for posting those links DaughterOfPsychiatrist even though they are very uncomfortable viewing.

It highlights what an impossible task Cass and the NHS have in trying to find a solution that fits all, as these families are so invested in their own alternative view of reality.

This is Kimberley speaking in the second clip when Kai was 7.

"I feel like we're in a position now where it's just not safe."

"This is my child."

"I have to look at her at night and say please Lord protect her. She's in the highest, most likely rate to be murdered of a hate crime in our country. She's in the highest risk group for committing suicide in our country."

"She's not at higher risk because she trans, she's at higher risk because we are allowing this bigotry and prejudice to continue".

WhiteFire · 08/12/2022 15:18

"I have to look at her at night and say please Lord protect her. She's in the highest, most likely rate to be murdered of a hate crime in our country. She's in the highest risk group for committing suicide in our country."

How can a parent be so irresponsible? Who is feeding people these lies? A very quick Google will tell you that they are. Fair enough these are from a few years back but it hasn't changed that much. Oh and if you are trans and running round with a gun threatening people and the police shoot you, it is because you are running around with a gun, not because you are trans.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hate-crime-fbi-statistics-show-murders-rose-2019/

WhiteFire · 08/12/2022 15:19

"I have to look at her at night and say please Lord protect her. She's in the highest, most likely rate to be murdered of a hate crime in our country. She's in the highest risk group for committing suicide in our country."

**

Itsoktogiveup · 08/12/2022 15:21

Delphinium20 · 08/12/2022 05:08

There are a lot of parallels here with documentaries on polygamist fundamentalist Mormon sects - where children and families (sisterwives) are on the run from the feds. The children and women (child brides) have been told all their lives that the outside world is dangerous (where they exile shunned young men). This fear has been inculcated at a very early age. It's a classic cult tactic.

Agree

WhiteFire · 08/12/2022 15:23

Apologies for the random post.

DevilinaCardigan · 08/12/2022 15:35

WhiteFire · 08/12/2022 15:18

"I have to look at her at night and say please Lord protect her. She's in the highest, most likely rate to be murdered of a hate crime in our country. She's in the highest risk group for committing suicide in our country."

How can a parent be so irresponsible? Who is feeding people these lies? A very quick Google will tell you that they are. Fair enough these are from a few years back but it hasn't changed that much. Oh and if you are trans and running round with a gun threatening people and the police shoot you, it is because you are running around with a gun, not because you are trans.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hate-crime-fbi-statistics-show-murders-rose-2019/

I wonder that as well. What/who gains from terrifying these children? I'm sure being trans as a child, or as an adult, can be difficult and people may say mean things. There is probably some threat of violence, but I wonder if it's really more than any group where people are seen as "different".

With the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, I've had several conversations with friends - and I know there's been plenty of discussion on MN - about how to talk to children about various crises in the world. DS was very anxious at the start of Covid as I work in a hospital (not patient facing), so we talked about the risks and the various things we did to keep safe (masks, wipes, screens) and also if I did get it, what would be the likely outcomes. By discussing the issues and putting the risks in to perspective, DS calmed down a lot. Why the fuck would a parent want to terrify their kid by saying that people want to kill them?! It's batshit insane.

It links back to words being violence and perfectly normal levels disagreement being hating people or denying their existence. Parents are telling their kids that JKR hates them. How is saying 'no' hate? How is wanting a decent evidence base before subjecting children to life-long medical interventions hate?

nilsmousehammer · 08/12/2022 16:58

Higher risk of (no real actual danger) because of bigotry = women saying no, wanting equality and single sex spaces, and not to be redefined as a thought in male heads is murdering children.

The drama and paranoia is off the charts.