Will Scottish reform of the GRA end in Repeal?

[Readingmum01]

The discussions over self ID in Government rattled on for years and England and Wales decided against it, so will Scottish government insistence for self ID lead to public support for repealing the Gender Recognition Act?

If the Act isn't got rid of, there will always be calls for 'reform' - for non binary to be included, for the age to be lowered, for extra genders to be added.

Isn't everyone sick of this legal lie? Why should anyone have a falsified birth certificate?

I think it will lead to repeal but I'm not sure what it will take for enough people to 1.understand why and 2. How it could be achieved.

What do you think?

We have

women's wards in hospitals, now inaccessible to some women
women's healthcare, now inaccessible to some women
women's refuges, now inaccessible to some women
women's rape crisis centres, now inaccessible to some women
women's work place toilets, now inaccessible to some women
gyms now inaccessible to some women

The first job of women's services is to be inclusive and accessible to women. Male inclusion = female exclusion. Or in another way: involves some female people having nothing at all so that male people can have freedom of choice from everything.

Sex based discrimination, rooted in sex based thinking. The lie that 'sex isn't a thing...'

@ArabellaScott I honestly think you'd find that "gender" certificates only hold any value insofar as they undermine sex in law & policy. Remove that undermining of sex, and they have no value to the people who want them - people who want to be treated as though they're the opposite sex. Same reason you never see a serious TRA campaign for 3rd spaces - they want women's.

There would be no need to create any new "gender" categories in discrimination law - since Forstater v CGS belief in gender identity ideology is protected under Freedom of Belief in the Equality Act, just as "gender critical" beliefs are protected.

So all that need to be done to solve our current problem of women having no rights & kids no safeguards is to repeal the GRA and adjust the EA accordingly. People who believe in transgenderism will continue to have all the human rights protections that everyone else has.

All true @nilsmousehammer but it's worse than that - we have seen: -

• a woman raped on an NHS ward, captured on CCTV, and the Trust deny to police that there was a man present
• a woman sexually assaulted in prison by a male inmate
• a woman denied life-saving at a private hospital surgery because she requested female-only post-operative care

The political erasure of sex by these misconceived gender laws goes far beyond exclusion into - I think it's fair to say - the realms of torture of women and putting our lives at risk, endorsed by the state as an inevitable and unavoidable consequence of the GRA 2004.

It's a situation that demands an urgent remedy, and it's shocking that Parliament is yet to even debate such an obvious solution.

Yes, but those lobbying for change are asking for 'gender recognition'. So if you were very literal and gave them that, then it might make it much harder for anyone to complain. They'd have to spell out very clearly that what the demand is is not actually for access to services, as claimed, but access to women and women's bodies as validation props for their fantasies.

I guess I'm thinking of how to lay the issues out so clearly that the decision makers can see the problem. And to create a situation where the govt can plausibly save face.

I think the Tories in E&W did this when there was clamour to 'simplify' what was a terribly onerous and arduous and expensive procedure . By taking the pleas literally, and making a GRC really cheap and easy to apply for, it managed to present a case that they'd done what was asked, while also successfully not ceding on self ID.

I should add I think it's worth campaigning on both fronts. Repeal the GRA and strengthen and clarify the EA.

Thanks for this @TheYummyPatler

Since Forstater v CGD gender identity ideology is already a protected belief, because that decision made gender critical beliefs protected. Quite straightforward, therefore. Just a question of the courts recognising transgenderism/gender identity ideology for what it is - a set of beliefs (born in the wrong body etc) instead of a coherent, objective category of person.

We know that "trans" isn't a coherent, objective identity or type of person, because people "detransition" by simply ceasing to believe that they're "trans" anymore. They stop dressing as the opposite sex, taking hormones and demanding counterfactual pronouns. Not trans anymore.

As a protected belief, its then a question of how you manifest it. There would no longer be any legal expectation that the rest of society of people who don't believe in transgenderism play along with that belief, or engage in the rituals it demands.

Positive news! Thank you @ResisterRex

Good luck to Scottish women @dementedma The "reforms" - which I think act like marketing campaigns - are coming thick and fast to get more customers aboard the trans train.

Bridal Wadwah & Katie Dolatowski, notably, needed no gender certificate to access women's spaced and be treated "for all purposes" as though they are women.

I look forward to seeing a repeal campaign in Scotland that acknowledges that the whole GRA 2004 is self-ID, and had been since it was first passed.

Thanks for this @Derock

It's such a relief to see that the government petitions office recognises that this is perfectly reasonable, sensible and rational potential motion for Parliamentary debate.

Wonder are any of the big women's groups supporting it? Less than 2,500 signatures so far.

No. The big women’s groups are focused on the Update the Equality Act petition, which is also important but doesn’t tackle the underlying lie that people can magically change sex. Also some prominent transexuals with a GRC are supporting the women’s groups, and they don’t want to upset them. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

The usual thing of women are more powerful if they have men with them agreeing and supporting, because people listen to men and take women more seriously if men are in the group demonstrating it's a real issue and not just a silly female thing.

But then women have to ensure that the men are kept happy and pleased.

And the end result is as we've seen from the start, that many of those men would like the boundaries shifted to exclude some men from women's spaces, but obviously not them .

I mean where do we even start with this sexist hell?

Petitions are a start. What else can we do to get this into Parliament, either house? I've close to given up hope on Scotland. My MP is an SNP grifter.

Talk with the Baroness. Who will be fully informed on all so far and fully aware of all the ramifications.

There's a parliamentary petition to repeal the GRA, though it doesn't have many signatures yet: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382

By right-minded women sticking together to hold the line, and press for the restoration of our rights (actual recognition of sex in law), regardless of what captured GC groups get up to.

You're absolutely correct that as soon as a campaign started pandering to males it gets bogged down. The conditioning not to offend them overrides women's prerogatives.

This looks like Baroness Nichol agrees the GRA should be repealed

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1602697476905074690?s=46&t=Au5BgjGD49II56iO0SNI-A

I think we are a long way from change.

Scotland prides itself on being "not England", and for some reason Nicola Sturgeon has decided that this issue in one that she is going to be particularly "not England" about. I just can't see how she, or the country in general, coyld stomach a u-turn.

I think change is going to be brought about by current teenagers. The 20-30s who spout that TWAW don't really believe it, they weren't taught it in school, told to accept that their friend 6 year old Alfie is now a girl called Ava, manage periods for the first time in mixed toilets, etc., they haven't really had to deal with all the implications. Current teens are being sold a lie. I work in a school, and increasing numbers are quietly eye-rolling at all this crap. In a decade there wilk be an army of angry detransitioners, and they will be the ones to bring change. And lawsuits.

Just posted on another thread but will share here too - Vulvamort explaining how the hell this appalling legislation was passed

https://mobile.twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1177699186361458688?cxt=HHwWgIC79fLKg9ggAAAA

overtly trying to legislate the gay away.

Right down in the foundations, everything to do with gender ideology seems to be riddled with homophobia.

With added misogyny for good measure.
Just awful.

Yet, we are supposed to cheer this along and delight in how progressive it all is.

Oh my gosh WHAT a read