'Rape should carry a mandatory life sentence' - Herald article, Neil Mackay

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23154534.rape-carry-mandatory-life-sentence/

Can't find an archived version. I am in Scotland at present, so read it in print. Strongly agree with what he says, especially these bits.

... Thirty years reporting on the cruelties humans inflict on each other has left me with a few simple beliefs: firstly, our jails are filled with the wrong people.

Get the sex workers, drug addicts and shoplifters out of prison. They're victims of circumstance - often poverty. There but for the grace of God, go I. Jail isn't were they should be. They need social workers, not turnkeys.

Another belief is this: all crimes which cause deliberate, indelible, life-altering harm to another human being should carry a mandatory life term, just like murder. ...

Those three decades as a crime reporter taught me another lesson: some offending is hardwired, particularly sexual offending.

You cannot "cure" rapists or paedophiles. You cannot "reprogramme" them. ...

... we can recognise that there are certain acts which are so beyond the boundaries of society that the offender deserves the harshest of punishment and exclusion from the society they've offended against. Rape is one of those acts, as is murder.

I've worked in this legal area for many years, both in south east of England, and more recently in Ireland. There is no single solution to make things much better in an instant, but a combination of things together, many of which suggested in earlier posts, could be a significant improvement.

Also, today there is a lot more data than in the past, many large scale longitudinal studies, lots of analysis done, a myriad of competing and overlapping (and sometimes contradictory) theories. However, at the end of the day it is humans and a legal system we've created.

Based on personal experience, I favour much longer sentences, with more discretion on the upper end for judges. In most of the cases I've seen the rapist knows what they are doing, when, where, how, (and sometimes who), it's pre-planned. I'll skip comment on the "why". They also know the chances of repercussions are small. Again in the cases that come to court, I've seen so much additional material showing that a rape is often just one more crime in the arsenal of a man with a range of repeat offenses, and often previous rape allegations.

While there are notable exceptions, the age profile of active rapists is a major factor with respect to repeat offenses. If a rapist is released at age 30, versus a release at age 50, there are very different outcomes statistically. Longer sentences, and released later in life.

In some ways I think the system today is better than at any time in the past, but not at all fit for purpose. I also think that we (females) don't do enough with respect to protest, politics, etc. to try move things to a better place. Horror cases grab the new headlines, and then things move on. I used to be shocked at the support that (alleged) rapists had from their family and friends.

I recognize some of the poster names on the thread. We're all people who work in this area, who know someone directly impacted, or ourselves were victims. It's a topic off the radar for most people sadly. They don't care so much on a day-to-day basis, and they don't understand the impact of rape on victims.

That's interesting @bythebanksof . What do you think of the objection that longer sentences might make juries less willing to convict?

yes. I think there is a real risk of that.

@scaredoff, to be honest I really don't know if it would make a significant difference. It might, it might not. However, if you speak to victims, you'll overwhelming hear that they are desirable, they want "better" justice.

@howdoesatoastermaketoast and @heldinadream yes indeed there is a risk, but I'd consider it small. If you want to know more on the subject you should go to local library or Uni that has access to research journals, and use scholar.google.com and look up motivations for such crimes, and perpetrator typologies specifically Massachusetts Treatment Center Rapist Typology (MTC: R3). It's widely considered one of the more helpful models in understanding why they do it, and what they are willing to do. There is a small subset of offenders who will/want to use serious violence as part of the crime, and they'll do that regardless to their victim. The majority use minimum force required to control the victim and get what they want done.

I disagree for 2 reasons.

One, women will be murdered to prevent them from reporting rape.

Two, juries will be even more reluctant to convict if there's a long sentence.

But I do agree the painfully short sentences atm are disgusting. It should be 10/15 years minimum.

All violent sentences should be longer.

30/40+ for murder.

20 for attempted.

20/25 for permanent injury. Eg acid attacks

15 for death by drink/drug driving.

2-5 years for assaults that cause injury eh broken bones/ stitches.

1 year minimum for domestic abuse and be put on a DV register and have to declare new relationships to police for 20 years

25-30+ for child sexual abuse

Mandatory jail for all non contact sex offences

@bythebanksof

"There is no single solution to make things much better in an instant, but a combination of things together, many of which suggested in earlier posts, could be a significant improvement."

I completely agree

"Also, today there is a lot more data than in the past, many large scale longitudinal studies, lots of analysis done, a myriad of competing and overlapping (and sometimes contradictory) theories. "

This may well be true but my experience is consistent with theories that 99% of rapes are unreported so I would be sceptical that studies and theories may be based on unreliable / incomplete data.

"Based on personal experience, I favour much longer sentences, with more discretion on the upper end for judges."

I'd totally support very high upper upper limits including life based on the logic of 'looking at the porn he's been consuming and the comments on forums and the escalating pattern of offending we were lucky to catch this guy before he murdered a woman."

"If a rapist is released at age 30, versus a release at age 50, there are very different outcomes statistically. Longer sentences, and released later in life."

sounds reasonable

"In some ways I think the system today is better than at any time in the past,"

in a way I'm encouraged to hear you say that it had seemed to me that rape had been virtually decriminalised but you work in the area so your perspective would naturally be very different to mine.

If my daughter were raped a) would you recommend calling the police and b) in your estimation what would be the chances of the rapist being found guilty at trial?

I do support locking up rapists for life. They aren’t capable of being members of society.

from a practical standpoint, this needs to be limited to either stranger rape or violent rape. It has to be the clear cut capture and assault situation.

we all know that rape comes in many forms, not just the stranger who jumps out of the bushes. Cases without clear cut evidence and that leave any room for one party misinterpreting are already difficult enough to convict.

@howdoesatoastermaketoast I did not mean to provide any encouragement or endorsement of the system as it. Just act any victim!

Of course the models are based on incomplete data. But it is a rich variety of sources, reports to police provide on tiny numbers. You'll see data from rape centers, support services, soliciting of people who've never reported previously through more public calls. They are samples, taken from different people, at different times, and different locations. It is what it is.

I'm not really in a position to give advice on something to like that to you or your daughter, it is something that you'd have to decide. I like to think I'd report to police, because I've seen that it's only through women reporting and bringing this crime to societal attention that things get done. I've been in total awe of the selfness and bravery of some women. But I also understand why many don't and won't and it's their choice. If you are interested, read "Dark Chapter" by Winnie Li. It's recent book, based in Northern Ireland, and while fictional it is largely grounded in real and accurate experience.

Dark Chapter is a good, but very disturbing read. Like many books, it should have a trigger warning. In fact if you read up on the the real world case (the author has a blog you'll easily find) then you can see exactly some of the items discussed in this thread played out in real life. A young offender, a repeat offender, a short sentence followed by a release, and then repeated offenses.

@bythebanksof interesting information about the data sources thanks

If rape comes with life, my worry is that rape followed by murder may become more common, plus if your victim is dead and you’re an unknown attacker the likelihood of being caught is surely slim.

Unfortunately I’m pretty sure Neil Mackay is a TRA. Meaning he presumably thinks lady rapists with penises should serve their life sentences in women’s prisons.

@Simonjt , I understand your reasoning. However, based on experience I would not agree. If you do a light reading on rapist typologies you'll find the violent sadistic ones are going to be like that anyway. In the case of a murder, with DNA, databases and video footage, the UK have a technically very good system with a high proportion of cases "solved". If you murder someone, chances are you'll be caught.

btw, "life" (in southern Ireland where I work today) is on average 18 years. Following changes in 2021, parole application now is after 12 years.

@Twicebakedroastpotatoes The whole trans discussions typically makes my blood boil. It often derails the core issue of mainstream sexual violence of men against women where progress needs to me made. In numbers terms I'd assume it is just "noise"?