Mooncup advert

[Tygertiger]

On FB. As if women in Kenya can identify out of oppression based on their biological sex.

Well, personally I would focus on the charitable aspect of it. Excellent that they are trying to tackle period poverty

I wonder how many women and girls in Kenya are tantrumming about being misgendered. Very few I'd expect.

I know. The actual work is fantastic. But “people with periods” dilutes the fundamental issue here that it is women and girls who face sex-based oppression.

They slipped up in the first paragraph and talked sense.

No, I doubt many girls and women in Kenya worry about being misgendered. They probably have far more urgent, sex-based problems to deal with.

They have to put the disclaimer in to avoid a pile on and taking attention from the real issue. Personally, I think it's a reasonable compromise.
I'd rather this than a mealy-mouthed 'people who bleed' or, worse, a dehumanising 'menstruators'.

I mean, leading with women and girls, obviously. They use the 'people with periods' in the 2nd paragraph

It's insulting. If they can't stand up to online comments, then really how good are they going to be at projects like this?

And it forces the offensive western notion (which most of us do not agree with) that the word "woman" is so offensive is requires a disclaimer, on Kenyan girls.

This to me harms the credibility of the entire brand. They are lying to your face.

They know that Kenyan girls cannot attend school if they have no means to deal with their periods.

They know that even if they did identify as boys it would make zero difference to the difficulties faced and the ability to attend school ( something we take for granted in the UK akd other developed countries )

Its nothing to do with being cis. Its their reality and that doesn't changed.

Why when something so basic as sanitary protection and school is in question is there still a need to pander to first World problems like identities when this is not even about those privileged enough to have the time and resources and access to basics to even be able to think about a gender identity.

One third of that post has been spent going on about trans issues, something that is completely different outside of Western cultures.

Messages are diluted with long explanations like that, and as with this thread, no one will be talking about the actual issue, but the woke statement added on the end.

Yes, they should just grow a pair and unashamedly speak sense instead of doffing their caps to the idiots.

Struggling to get too worked up - the main statement refers to women and girls, they've added the footnote to placate those who would otherwise pile on and deflect from the original message.

I don’t understand why people are assuming that there aren’t trans people in Kenya. There are trans people in Kenya, and in other developing countries, and they are invariably marginalised and at risk. Pretending it’s a “privileged western thing” is extremely short-sighted.

It was quite interesting to see the Masai’s reaction to the concept in the Matt Walsh (I think) documentary @mutationseagull

All people, trans or not, need to accept that they have a sex and that we have (and need) words to describe that sex and that when we mean sex, as in his case where periods are only relevant for female humans/women and girls), we should be able to use those words without apology or qualification even if some of those women and girls find that fact that they are women and girls difficult.

Sent them a private message:

Hi there, I'm writing to thank you for the work you're doing in Kenya and for your support for women and girls. Clearly you are good people trying to make a positve difference in the world.

Your recent adverts uses some wording that can tend to undermine that work though. You write that "not all women/girls have periods" and this is factually true - premenstrual young girls and postmenopausal women are obviously still women and girls. However, you also write that "not all who have periods are women/girls". This is factually wrong and confusing. ONLY women and girls have periods. Boys and men are biologically incapable of having periods as they do not have ovaries or wombs. Women who identify as non-binary or as men are still biologically women, biologically female and need period care. To say otherwise is denying reality and in the area of periods, which are biological fact, potentially confusingly dangerous.

Women and girls in less developed countries face systematic oppression, discrimination and violence based on their SEX, not their gender. They cannot identify out of this oppression. To support women and girls and fight this oppression, we need to be firm and clear about who and what they are. Woman is not a dirty word. I know you are trying to be positive and inclusive but I would ask you to please consider that by reducing, denying or stigmatising womanhood, you are doing the opposite.

This kind of "inclusive" language often makes information more hard to understand for people with lower education levels, learning disabilities or people who have English as a second language. In these cases, this kind of unclear language is exclusive to these other marginalised groups.

I really hope that you are able to take on board my comments. I used to work in local government and did a lot of work on reaching marginalised groups. I know that attempts to be inclusive come from a good place but they can and are having unexpected negative consequences. And as people working in menstruation products, which only affect WOMEN AND GIRLS and never men, you could be a standard bearer for unapologetic championing of women and girls.

Thank you for all your efforts,

I think that's OK. Women and girls first, disclaimer at the bottom to placate those who worry about such things.

Theres no need for a disclaimer. Because its not about them. It doesn't hurt anyone to realise that sometimes things are not about them and their identities.

Would you expect the cats protection league to put a disclaimer that they know dogs exist when dealing with cats that are victims of cruelty ?

Anyone privileged enough to have the money to purcjase a moincup or donate one education, the education level to read the post, the Internet and a smart phone/laptop/pc and electricity to be able to be on Facebook hunting for " breaches in inclusive language " are not who the post is about. They have the option to i dunno, not read it. These girls in Kenya don't have that luxury to ignore reality.

Do women in Kenya see themselves as "cis-women"? Do they have the concept of Gender identity? So they are framing them and describing them with western concepts. How bloody colonial of them.

I’d be astonished if they asked the women & girls in Kenya for their gender identity in the course of that research. So they’re saying “cis” & cruelly misgendering unknown numbers of enbies & agender females. All to satisfy people in the West who are unable to cope with the concept of heliocentric universe 🙄

you're given c 100 words to write about some incredibly important work that's being done in the area of women's health.

you decide to allocate c one third of those 100 words to a lengthy TWAW disclaimer.

seems sensible.

No it's not OK. No bending of reality, no waste of time and effort in order to capitulate to this utterly bullshit concept that somehow the nefarious "gender" is even close in importance to actual sex is ok. None of this is OK. It is fucking insane.

The statement disclaimer is outright false though, isn't it?

I do not believe in the slightest that FSG did "research involving cis-women and girls in Kenya". I doubt they either identified or attempted to identify a single "cis-woman".

The research would have been on human females.

I've listened to people who have studied "third genders" that Westerners use to argue about gender diversity in other cultures. Those cultures do not see trans in the same way that the West does, they accept their biological sex but may live in a role typical of the other sex, whilst being clear what their actual biological sex is.

The main complaint from these studies is that the West deliberately misinterprets these cultures.

If they recognise that not all who have periods are women and girls, then the terms 'women' and 'girls' have been appropriated and redefined as something based on an unfalsifiable belief in an inner abstract gender identity. Most of us don't possess such an abstract identity, yet we are stripped of the terms we have always used for our sex class.

How do we fight against sex-based oppression in this world if there are now terms for female people? And what, pray, is the new definition of, say, 'women?' I would love to see one which is not either empirically empty or based on retrogressive sexist stereotypes about femininity or sex roles.

I’ve listened to people who are actually trans in places like Kenya. They exist and there are local organisations dedicated to supporting them. I would suggest listening to them rather than putting words in their mouths about how they see themselves.