My feed

to access all these features

Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

This House believes in the right to offend @ Cambridge Union

84 replies

ScreamingMeMe · 18/11/2022 10:14

Kathleen Stock did well here. Bit embarrassed for some of the students tbh.

OP posts:
KittensNotMittens · 18/11/2022 10:15

It’s embarrassing that ‘the brightest’ need to debate this.

IcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2022 10:22

Just trying to watch the first one Cass(?), I wish he'd stand still. Starts around 7.45.

ScreamingMeMe · 18/11/2022 10:25

Of course she won.

This House believes in the right to offend @ Cambridge Union
OP posts:
Sausagedoggy · 18/11/2022 10:51

Unfortunately the reality of being at Cambridge is that we don't have the right to offend. I definitely have to keep my GC beliefs quiet there for fear of being cancelled.

leafinthewind · 18/11/2022 10:52

The first proposition speaker (Kass) was essentially in opposition.

Rightsraptor · 18/11/2022 10:54

Oh tut tut, @IcakethereforeIam , Kass (or Kassandra according to their SU bio) is a they/them who identifies as a non-binary bisexual. I think I got that right. But not 'he'.

I've only got 20 min in as yet. Kass is quite cute but tiresome in that 'I'm 20 and I know everything' way.

Helleofabore · 18/11/2022 10:55

I am just listening to the first speaker. Kass Kaldicott made the debate personal and hostile towards Doc Stock. And it was so emotionally manipulative too. Talking about their 'fear of walking home because of what they wear'.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 10:55

Good speech by Kathleen

was the shouting in the background directed at her??

Helleofabore · 18/11/2022 10:59

What is the 'indigenous trans and gender non conforming identities' that Kaldicott refers to at the end of their speech.

PriOn1 · 18/11/2022 11:01

Kass is waffling so much that it’s difficult to understand what point is being made in relation to the question. I’m not sure what it is about Kass’s appearance that we are supposed to believe causes fear of attack when walking alone at night though! There must have been hundreds of thousands of students that looked much the same, going back hundreds of years in time.

I dare say Dr Stock’s appearance would be much more likely to invite attack from predatory men, though of course I am wholly unable to put my finger on the reason why! 🥳

Helleofabore · 18/11/2022 11:09

Well.... perhaps Kass has resorted to male dress to garner credibility ...... Like Kassandra knows very well that some one in male dress may be more persuasive to 'some' people.

IcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2022 11:13

@Rightsraptor well, that explains the shiftiness. I should have realised privileged✔, white✔, male presenting✔....of course Cass will be nonbinary Hmm

Sorry about the Mrgendering. And Cass with a 'K', is it more authentic or is it more 'exotique' (surprised he didn't go with 'Spudooliquequay').

Helleofabore · 18/11/2022 11:14

Why did this debate end up being so very focused on gender identity....

franke · 18/11/2022 11:17

I was disheartened by how few women got up to speak.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 11:26

I very much enjoyed Arif Ahmed’s speech, it was excellent. He was so confident in knocking back those who interrupted him, much more so than KS. I wonder why that could be?

FriendofJoanne · 18/11/2022 11:34

@IcakethereforeIam just got to the bit where Cass says Cass is non binary. Of course they are. Prior to that I just thought white privileged male with no skin in the game, now I think white privileged male who needs to feel special and is opting into being 'most oppressed' by oppressing women. Sigh.

Rightsraptor · 18/11/2022 11:39

Kass also spells Kaldicott with an initial K. I do wonder if Kass's parents have any views on that.

Kass's gender stereotypical clothing is interesting, especially when Kass was taking about fear of being attacked or whatever because of Kass's appearance. I was a bit 😏

VestofAbsurdity · 18/11/2022 12:00

Ah but did you notice how Kass kept swishing Kass's hair that's the clue you missed to the special status.

spannasaurus · 18/11/2022 12:11

Do these type of debates usually have that level of abstentions?

MyCrumpetIsCold · 18/11/2022 12:17

Privileged white male uses the opportunity to make personal attacks, shocker. What’s depressing is that special K looks like he’ll fit right in at the Commons in 20 years time 🤦‍♀️

FriendofJoanne · 18/11/2022 12:29

Muhammed "if something offends me it is offensive". Shame it doesn't work both ways though isn't it? Women keep pointing out that we are offended by so much of gender ideology but the menz don't care surprise surprise.

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 18/11/2022 12:35

Kass was bloody infuriating, all "I don't want to spend much time on this but" and then proceeded to spend most of the time on a massive slagging off session of Kathleen Stock. Was there no one at these sessions who could rein these people in when going so very clearly off topic?

I must have skipped past the part about not feeling safe walking home at night. For fuck sake, what a fucking insult for every woman; WE don't feel safe, WE aren't safe, but noooo, up rocks Kass, with Kass' special identity which means we somehow can't even talk about our own issues without centering Kass in it all and how Kass has it so much worse than the boring old women. Unsafe my arse, Kass is nothing of the sort. Women are raped and murdered and Kass would probably think that's on par with someone addressing Kass as "sir" 🙄

As an aside, I would have thought at an institution like Cambridge when these kind of events are being held the least you could do is put down your fucking mobile phone!

PriOn1 · 18/11/2022 12:40

leafinthewind · 18/11/2022 10:52

The first proposition speaker (Kass) was essentially in opposition.

Not really. It was simply an opportunist personal attack, without any attempt to debate the topic.

Like franke, having now seen all the speakers, I find myself wondering whether any of the students noticed that the only non-male speaker was an invited guest that came under attack, both inside the hall and presumably outside it. Sexism is thoroughly alive and well in Cambridge, despite the selection of a female chair. Dr Stock obviously believed she had to refer back to the 15th century to offer an example of a time when sexism was not considered offensive. All she really had to do was to tell them to take a long, hard look at themselves.

IcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2022 12:47

I hope Kass's middle name starts with a different letter, I could only see him from the waist up. I choose to believe he was wearing a big bouffant powder blue lace skirt with the black jacket. Never thought I'd see a cravat in the wild. I cringed a bit when the last speaker was told he had the ears of the house, thought it was a bit on the nose, but he spoke very well. The bit about 'not life and death' though!

I don't know the rules of the debate, all those 'no thank yous', I was wondering if someone offscreen was offering biscuits, until Teodor did his jump scare.

Loved the 'tasche on the cameraman behind Doc Stock. Got a bit of a crush now on Prof Ahmed.

Couldn't hear most of the interruptions.

I don't think the people opposing the motions actually had an argument. It all seems terribly circular.

WeThreeKingsofOrientAre · 18/11/2022 12:56

Never seen one of these before. I’m very curious. Like earlier posters I also noted the lack of female speakers and that the guest speaker was female and the only speaker to receive personal attacks.

I’m wondering if the number of abstentions were down to Joshua Shortman’s speech?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.