“It reiterates the stereotype [trans] is a costume” - Mrs Doubtfire and Seattle Times

[CountZacular]

The Mrs Doubtfire musical is set to launch in West End in May. I noticed it trending on Twitter earlier and saw this review (2019) doing the rounds in support of why trans people shouldn’t watch it. I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but I’m completely astounded the hypocrisy is lost on them.

https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/theater/mrs-doubtfire-roundtable-intro/?amp=1

A couple of quite incredible quotes:

”I didn’t see “Mrs. Doubtfire” in [movie] theaters. I actually watched it for the first time this week. And I thought: “Oh god. This is really bad.” I guess the important thing to remember is that this is all constructed from someone’s imagination of what someone like me must be — and they’re doing it without any direct experience.”

“The “man in a dress” trope is one that always comes up because we have these cis actors playing trans women — and then they show up to accept their award in a beard. It reiterates the stereotype that this is a costume that you get to just put on and take off, instead of bringing to light that this is our lives. I think in 2019 there have already been [at least 22] trans murders. It’s a funny joke when you’re at The 5th Avenue Theatre and you paid hundreds of dollars to go, but it’s not funny when your sister dies. Where do we start to draw the line?”

FFS the whole point is that Mrs Doubtfire IS a costume that the father wears to disguise himself.
In no way is Mrs doubtfire a trans woman!

I think what it reiterates to me (based purely on these reviews), is that trans women have more in common with a man in a costume than a natal woman if it’s seen as transphobic and not misogynistic.

I wonder if there’s a a reason for that… 🤔

Interesting to compare this with some of the responses to the new civil service SEEN network. It’s as is nothing is worthy of consideration unless through the trans lens, and that can be very distorting indeed (like, you missed the film’s actual narrative)

Everything has to be about being trans now. He IS a man dressing as a nanny to be near his kids. Pathetic arguments.

I'm waiting for the highly woke musical theatre groups I'm in to raise an objection.....

So far even they have managed to be rational

Have the cancel everything mob connected Anne Fine and Cordelia Fine yet?

Wait until they find out about Kenneth Cope in Carry On Matron. Not only a man in a dress but a man in a dress so he can carry out a robbery. Probably written by a terf.

Complete horseshit. Robin William’s character wasn’t a struggling gender dysphoric man. TRA’s are happy to hijack any narrative they can rewrite to claim transphobia, discrimination and offence.

The irony of them not realising that for many women, the often gender stereotypical woman “costume” that men wear (to identify themselves as women in addition to their inner woman feelings) does look a lot like Williams’ character.

Which hardly comes as a surprise. Bloke in dress looks like bloke in dress. Yep.

Hmm, interesting!
I love Mrs Doubtfire, seen it hundreds of times and am old enough to have gone to the cinema with my mate to see it in 1993 as a mid teen! 😳😁
Mrs Doubtfire isn't trans though?
She's a man who is desperate to see his kids after splitting with his wife so disguises himself as a Scottish nanny so he can see them daily.
I can see why trans people don't like it though, as it'd be upsetting seeing a film that shows someone pretending to be a woman for their own gains, it reinforces beliefs in some that it's a pretence and that can only contribute to hatred/othering/etc.
As an aside I'm firmly on Miranda (his separated wife's) side as an adult as I can see him as some kind of controlling stalker who tries to sabotage her new relationship and inserts himself into get togethers with them without her knowledge, WTF man 😳😁
I also really hope the musical is touring as I love musicals and would love to go see this one

I can see why trans people don't like it though, as it'd be upsetting seeing a film that shows someone pretending to be a woman for their own gains, it reinforces beliefs in some that it's a pretence and that can only contribute to hatred/othering/etc

I’m curious about this in reflection to drag. Drag is someone pretending to be a woman and as the act ends and the costume is removed. Does that mean drag is in fact transphobic? I can’t see much different in that arguments against Mrs Doubtfire.

Genderist extremists fail to see the humour in drag?! Ha ha ha! Well, call me surprised!

Let’s hope they never watch Tootsie…

Have the cancel everything mob connected Anne Fine and Cordelia Fine yet?

Oh! I hadn't realised that. I see in AFs wiki page she supports Let Books be Books too.

I mean, they want it all ways, don't they?

Transwomen are women, unless transwomen disagree and then it's, "...this is all constructed from someone’s imagination of what someone like me must be...."

Have these men ever listened to what they themselves are saying?

My point is, how can any man, regardless of "gender", know what it is like to be a woman, when those men have never ever experienced, never ever will experience, actually being a woman?

All I can wonder is what they're smoking to misunderstand Mrs Doubtfire so badly.

The whole point is that a desperate father denied the access rights he believes he needs to survive the separation from his wife is finding only one way to do so - to lie to his wife and kids by dressing up as a woman so he'll be employed as a nanny by his long-suffering wife.

He wasn't a terribly bad father, but he definitely was a bad husband, so his wife wouldn't trust him to look after the kids full-time.

This isn't a movie about pretending to be a woman, even though that's where Robin William's comedic genius is rather lazily employed. This is a movie about trust, how we lose it, how hard it is to rebuild and about a selfish man learning to put someone else's needs first.

How they can turn that on its head to make it all about the trans is beyond me.

Have you seen the "Mrs Doubtfire recut as a horror film trailer"? It plays up the stalkery vibe quite well

I used to think drag was 'womanface', but increasingly I do think it's actually more transphobic than anything else.

The fact that Drag Race welcomes the occasional trans competitor reinforces the equivalence between men in frocks and transwomen.

Not sure why more people don't see this and kick off about it.

My first thought was also why is this not ok and drag is. There’s even a drag king interviewed on that linked ‘article’. The cognitive dissonance to me is astounding. And who doesn’t like Mrs Doubtfire?! It’s supposed to be an ultimate love letter to his kids. I get the creepy element but I cannot imagine anyone could seriously pull this off irl with the other parent, so it’s harmless.

I've seen the opposite response to this (on FB).

Basically along the lines of "all these transphobic people who actually grew up loving a trans character: see, we've been around for eternity biatches!"

Or written from an "ally" position.
And shared by "feminist" allies.

My first thought was also why is this not ok and drag is.

Drag wasn't, a few years back. There were quite a few stories about student unions and the like banning or decrying drag acts for being transphobic.

I wonder if "Drag Queen Story Hour" was maybe what rehabilitated it - drag's good now because it gives access to children to spread the Gender Gospel.

I didn’t know that. It does seem to have done a 180 then with story hour in libraries etc.

I guess the important thing to remember is that this is all constructed from someone’s imagination of what someone like me must be — and they’re doing it without any direct experience.”

The person who said this is listed as being intersex (though mentions having estranged children, which I suspect throws doubt on that claim anyway: there are rare DSD conditions where people can be fertile, but there are also men who readily lie, which is probably more frequent). If genuinely intersex, there is literally no comparison with Mrs Doubtfire as the situations are entirely dissimilar.

a film that shows someone pretending to be a woman for their own gains, it reinforces beliefs in some that it's a pretence

It might also be a stark reminder that, even with professional make-up, very few men actually pass, even those more accurately dressed as older women tend to dress, which a few men who claim they are women actually do.

*This is a movie about trust, how we lose it, how hard it is to rebuild and about a selfish man learning to put someone else's needs first.

How they can turn that on its head to make it all about the trans is beyond me.*

Men demanding access and dominion over everything that women have? Trust and selfishness? Nobody likes having the flaws in their ideology pointed out to them.

What about drag Queens? Surely that is the same but worse if this is the argument? The tra movement is so incoherent. What about Eddie izzard?

I agree that the author has comprehension issues and just didn’t understand the plot of mrs doubtfire.

It’s about a man who dresses up as a woman to manipulate it a situation to get what she wants.

So unless the author thinks that’s what being a trans woman is, they’ve managed to miss the point. Spectacularly.

Why would anyone in the trans community even want to associate that with being trans? It makes no sense beyond wanting to be outraged online.

It reiterates the stereotype that this is a costume that you get to just put on and take off, instead of bringing to light that this is our lives.

Neither is womanhood.

The author has the same comprehension difficulties that most TRAs have.