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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent help please

44 replies

Pinniepotter · 15/11/2022 09:22

I've been tasked with creating a form to capture EDI details of staff for an event (race, ethnicity, religion etc.)

Work is fairly captured but there is a growing awareness of the issues with stonewall and gender ID.

So how do I include trans and non binary without sending everyone nuts.

Was thinking:

What is your sex:

Male
Female
Other (trans / non binary)

Or

What is your sex

Male
female
Other (I identify as a gender that does not correlate with my birth sex or non gendered)

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
KatMcBundleFace · 15/11/2022 09:26

I'd stick close to the protected characteristics.

Sex:
Male
Female
Prefer not to say

Gender reassignment
I consider my gender identity to be different to my sex.
Yes
No
Prefer not to say

thisplaceisweird · 15/11/2022 09:27

Your question should be 'How do you identify?' not what is your sex.

Responses as above:

Male
Female
Prefer not to say

waterwitch · 15/11/2022 09:28

Can you go with the equality act, so that would be sex (observed at birth) M/F and gender reassignment y/n. You could then include a (optional?) free text space for preferred gender if that seems helpful.

lanadelgrey · 15/11/2022 09:29

Sex can only be male/female.

next question: do you consider yourself to have a gender identity y/n

third: what is it TF, TM, NB
include I don’t consider myself to have a GI or n/a
Prefer not to say

Results will give accurate idea of how many. GNC staff and breakdown of categories

1984onstilts · 15/11/2022 09:29

KatMcBundleFace · 15/11/2022 09:26

I'd stick close to the protected characteristics.

Sex:
Male
Female
Prefer not to say

Gender reassignment
I consider my gender identity to be different to my sex.
Yes
No
Prefer not to say

Agree with this.

Asking 'how you identify' and then sex cateogories is discriminatory to people who hold the belief in biological binary sex, which is protected in law.

Sex is real, it is not about identity. By having a 'sex' category and a 'gender' category the company will be able to better identify and help vulnerable groups. Confusing sex with gender does nothing to help anyone.

LaughingPriest · 15/11/2022 09:29

As Kat says. You can't put a third option for sex that isn't simply 'don't want to say'.

I actually don't think the concept of 'gender identity different from sex' makes logical sense either (it's like 'is your nationality different from your race?') but everyone seems to use it because they implicitly know that woman=female, man=male.

Perhaps something like 'do you identify as having a reassigned gender?' to make it as close to the protected characteristic as possible?

1984onstilts · 15/11/2022 09:30

You could also have gender and then a box for people to write in their gender. I've heard there are up to 400?

JacquelinePot · 15/11/2022 09:31

Can you copy the wording used in the census?

KittenKong · 15/11/2022 09:31

Do you need ‘how do you identify’? Sex is sex but gender - ask if they have gender reassignment cert, if relevant.

notstoppingnow · 15/11/2022 09:34

There are only two sexes. Male and Female.
You could ask which gender they are.

waterwitch · 15/11/2022 09:40

Thisplaceisweird, go on then, I’ll bite; why should you not ask for sex? Given sex is a protected characteristic, and rather useful to identify discrimination…. If no women attend OP’s event, that’s important to know. It doesn’t help if that’s mixed up with transwomen who did attend.

ChateauMargaux · 15/11/2022 09:40

What is your legal sex M/F..

Do you have a gender identity Y/N if yes please choose from:
Male
Female
Other
Not Applicable

Soontobe60 · 15/11/2022 09:41

Sex as observed at birth:
Female / Male / prefer not to say

How do you currently identify?
Female / Male / non-binary / prefer not to say

Marital Status:
Single / Married / Civil partnership / prefer not to say

Age:
18 - 30 / 31 - 50/ 51 - 60 / 60+ / prefer not to say

Race:
_ (they write their own in)

Religion:
_ (as race)

Do you have a medically diagnosed disability?
yes / no / prefer not to say

Do you have a self - diagnosed disability?
yes / no / prefer not to say

Sexual Orientation:
Straight (opposite sex) / Gay or Lesbian (same sex) / Bisexual (any sex) / other / prefer not to say

Have you been pregnant within the last 12 months?
Yes / no / prefer not to say

BellaAmorosa · 15/11/2022 09:42

@Pinniepotter
I think @KatMcBundleFace has it right. But I would say modify it a bit:

Sex (as recorded on birth certificate):
Male
Female

Do you consider yourself to have a gender identity
Yes
No
Prefer not to say

If yes, do you consider your GI to be the same as your sex (as recorded on your birth certificate)?
Yes
No
Prefer not to say/Other

That would give you numbers of male and female and numbers of trans (which includes non-binary) and comply with the EA2010.

BellaAmorosa · 15/11/2022 09:44

ChateauMargaux · 15/11/2022 09:40

What is your legal sex M/F..

Do you have a gender identity Y/N if yes please choose from:
Male
Female
Other
Not Applicable

More succinct than my version!

HarvestThyme · 15/11/2022 09:44

Sex (required field)

M
F
Prefer not to say

Gender identity (optional)

M
F
Non-binary
Other

Then you have captured the information your organisation is looking for. No one needs to claim a gender identity if they don't want to. No one needs to declare their sex if they don't want to.

If they really want to collect lots of useless data, make 'other' a write-in field.

LaughingPriest · 15/11/2022 09:44

Sex (as recorded on birth certificate):
Male
Female

This would look strange, and if you transition you can change your birth certificate anyway.

Just sex: male/female/don't want to say works fine.

Soontobe60 · 15/11/2022 09:45

BellaAmorosa · 15/11/2022 09:42

@Pinniepotter
I think @KatMcBundleFace has it right. But I would say modify it a bit:

Sex (as recorded on birth certificate):
Male
Female

Do you consider yourself to have a gender identity
Yes
No
Prefer not to say

If yes, do you consider your GI to be the same as your sex (as recorded on your birth certificate)?
Yes
No
Prefer not to say/Other

That would give you numbers of male and female and numbers of trans (which includes non-binary) and comply with the EA2010.

The problem with this is that those who hold a GRC can have a new birth certificate issued. When you ask about sex observed at birth you cover that problem.

Sallysue82 · 15/11/2022 09:47

Soontobe60 · 15/11/2022 09:41

Sex as observed at birth:
Female / Male / prefer not to say

How do you currently identify?
Female / Male / non-binary / prefer not to say

Marital Status:
Single / Married / Civil partnership / prefer not to say

Age:
18 - 30 / 31 - 50/ 51 - 60 / 60+ / prefer not to say

Race:
_ (they write their own in)

Religion:
_ (as race)

Do you have a medically diagnosed disability?
yes / no / prefer not to say

Do you have a self - diagnosed disability?
yes / no / prefer not to say

Sexual Orientation:
Straight (opposite sex) / Gay or Lesbian (same sex) / Bisexual (any sex) / other / prefer not to say

Have you been pregnant within the last 12 months?
Yes / no / prefer not to say

Marital Status:
Single / Married / Civil partnership / prefer not to say

i have to disagree with this. I have 3 children with my partner of 14 years, we own a house together yet I would have to describe myself as “single”. But there’s options to describe a “gender identity”

BellaAmorosa · 15/11/2022 09:48

KittenKong · 15/11/2022 09:31

Do you need ‘how do you identify’? Sex is sex but gender - ask if they have gender reassignment cert, if relevant.

Excellent points and difficult to argue against, but I get the impression the OP has to include gi questions.

BellaAmorosa · 15/11/2022 09:56

Soontobe60 · 15/11/2022 09:45

The problem with this is that those who hold a GRC can have a new birth certificate issued. When you ask about sex observed at birth you cover that problem.

@Soontobe60
I know about the GRC, but you do have to treat holders as if they are the opposite sex unless you are dealing with SS spaces or services. This information is being gathered for a specific event, not for general use.

Signalbox · 15/11/2022 10:24

I know about the GRC, but you do have to treat holders as if they are the opposite sex unless you are dealing with SS spaces or services. This information is being gathered for a specific event, not for general use.

Does the EA only refer to single-sex spaces and services?

Depending on the reasons for collecting the data, I would think that when collecting sex-based data it would be a proportionate means to achieving a legitimate aim to exclude all male people from the female category.

LaughingPriest · 15/11/2022 10:39

i have to disagree with this. I have 3 children with my partner of 14 years, we own a house together yet I would have to describe myself as “single”. But there’s options to describe a “gender identity”

The protected char is not about living arrangements or home ownership but legal status. I agree 'single' is not a good option - 'unmarried' would be more accurate.

It would be odd for EDI purposes to collect this data anyway imo - I'd want to know what it was being used for.

BobBobBobbing · 15/11/2022 10:44

Oh I do like the suggestion to ask "do you have a gender identity?" And then give options. I detest questions that just ask what my gender is- I don't have one!

BobBobBobbing · 15/11/2022 10:45

(It needs to go alongside a sex question as well. That's really important information)