Women's Centres

[secondwaver]

Love to hear what you all think about Women's Centres. Do you remember when there were lots of them? Did you use them?? Do you have a Women's Centre near you? What does it provide? Would you like to see more Women's Centres? What sorts of activity would you like to see happening there?? Looking forward to hearing all your thoughts Wendy

I am a Trustee of a Women's Centre that has just celebrated its 40th year.

What happened to the Walthamstow site, Wendy?

Hi Wendy,
Lovely to see you here! For those that might not know Wendy was on the Sunday opening panel at FiLiA this year. We were lucky enough to to hear all about this incredible idea.

This was broadly my point: that’s what “women like me” probably do in practice. But as such, our voices are therefore going to be largely missing from wider discussion and debate around women’s rights, feminism, sex and gender identity, the direction of women’s politics and so forth that take place in Women’s Centres, if “women like me” don’t see them as relevant; and the voices of women who might use Women’s Centres are likewise going to be missing from our discussions and debates if we’re (allegedly) having them in our private members’ clubs. Access to diversity of thought and lived experience is important for uniting women towards common goals, and maybe Women’s Centres would benefit from appealing to and attracting women who might not think WCs are for women “like them” if they wish to unite women from a range of backgrounds.

There are a hundred different organisations you can join if you want to have your voice heard — everything from Sex Matters, Fair Play for Women, the Women's Rights Network, the WI to the women's section of any political party of your choice. All of them, I'm sure, would welcome your input.

Women's Centres have been run autonomously and on a shoestring for the last 50 or so years, relying on LA grants and applications for finance from various trusts and sources. I don't think any of them were influential at a political level — so no need to worry about your voice not being heard if you're not involved in a women's centre. As for being a hot-bed of debate on gender ideology issues, those that were tend to have bitten the dust and those that remain have tended to be those who accept men who identify as women in order to continue receiving funding. Feminist friends in Nottingham reported Nottingham Women's Centre having fallen to transwomen about 15 years ago. It's still going strong. At one time it appeared to have been almost completely run by transwomen. The council loved this example of inclusion. No idea what the situation is now.

Someone like you could be very helpful as a trustee or on the committee or volunteering to help with admin or just answering the phone for a couple of hours a week. Or maybe you could be in a position to help start up a centre of biological women only in your area? I'm sure you'd find support.

Rooms of Our Own are looking for women to be trustees etc, so perhaps you'd like to get involved with that.

Access to diversity of thought and lived experience is important for uniting women towards common goals, and maybe Women’s Centres would benefit from appealing to and attracting women who might not think WCs are for women “like them” if they wish to unite women from a range of backgrounds.

What common goals do you think Women's Centres have/ had? IME they were focussed on the needs local women identified. Why do you think that women like you haven't always been involved in women's centres? One of the perennial criticisms was always that my women's centre was established by and largely run by white, middle-class volunteers, many of whom had professional careers. Women's Centres used to be about women helping women within a consciousness-raising framework.

It's become increasingly clear that many of those of us growing up in the 60s and 70s had a very much more political (not party political, I mean feminist political) and community-centred way of seeing the world than many do now.

Thanks for the tips. I already work in several trustee roles on top of my day job and probably don’t have capacity for any others right now but I’ll bear Rooms in mind when that changes.

I’m not sure that “Women’s Centres have always been run this way for women who fit into these categories on shoestring budgets and so that’s how they should continue” is necessarily the right strategic attitude, considering how women’s needs, positions, experiences and values have changed over the past several decades. Surely WCs should aim to change along with that, as any other community group would? If they’ve apparently never been influential at a political level or been able to promote the importance of their work, perhaps that would change if their attendees did?

And if removing gender ideology from women’s spaces is your bag, then it’s greater female representation you need to encourage, not less. Some of the most gender critical women I know, for example, are women who work at very senior levels in traditionally male dominated industries - I’m in insurance, which is notoriously male. When I speak with younger women at my WI meets who work in other sectors, they often have no idea why I might object, for example, to a Transwoman having been appointed to the board of one of the largest global runoff firms and lauded as an example of how women can succeed in the industry. Well, that’s diversity, isn’t it, and proves women’s representation is changing? They don’t appreciate that that transwoman actually has three decades of experience as a man working in a male dominated industry, knows nothing of what women in that industry are up against if they want to succeed and achieve seniority, and isn’t interested in changing anything about their experiences. So exposure to women from different backgrounds, with different experiences and points of view, is critical to these issues.

I’m not sure whether it’s hostility or snark I can detect in your posts, but either which way, the OP of this thread was clearly looking for a range of views, which is what I was aiming to respond to.

I do understand about how much things have changed in the last 50+ years. I guess I just struggle to see what benefit a women's centre run by and largely for white middle class professional women brings to a town or city. What would a women's centre give you that you couldn't get from preexisting entities?

The old-fashioned types of women's centre were set up mainly by left-leaning feminists (including lots of lesbians) to offer women who were struggling and vulnerable a hand up. They also let rooms out to all sorts of women's groups — everything from a knitting circle to the lesbian feminist discussion group and other women's organisations. Nothing to stop anyone renting a room for a professional women's networking group.

Oh, and this:

And if removing gender ideology from women’s spaces is your bag, then it’s greater female representation you need to encourage, not less.

It wasn't a shortage of women volunteers or service-users that caused the demise of my local women's centre. It was a trans woman who turned up demanding their right as a women (despite clearly not being a woman) and threatening to drag us through the courts if we didn't admit them that started the collapse. That and the capture of the local council and various other funders who decided that if the WC wasn't inclusive (ie accepted men) there would be no more money.

I'd think spaces to hot desk would be appealing to a wide range of women. The better off may have a nanny and DC at home being distracted. The less well off may not have a home working space.

You cant recreate situations that came our of a particular set of circumstances in a particular time period.

I am suspicious of women who want to recreate or idolise a particular period of women's politics as being how things should happen now. And I am saying this as someone active in the 70s.

Not all London boroughs had women's centres. They were not set up by white middle class women. They were set up by local women and so reflected the women in the borough. And particularly in London they were set up by working class and Black women who had no other space to come together and support each other. And more likely were part of the squatting movement. For anyone who is familiar with the life and work of Olive Morris she is a prime example. And despite what white main stream media like to tell us helped create the first women's refuge.

I dont know of one women's centre in London that was set up by white middle class women to "help" disadvantaged women as some sort of do gooding project. Some women's centres, like the one set up by Wages for Housework, were about recruiting women to their politics through offering support services. (Nobody knows where they got the money to buy their current building, but apart from the building known as Tindal Manor where a number of funded women's groups have offices, are I think the only women's centres who own their property.)

But like much else from 70s Women's Liberation the political purpose and achievements were lost once funding was accepted. Either you conformed to funders perceptions of what you should be or you were closed!

With so much of feminist now happening on line I am not sure what political function women's centres would serve. You would only get the support of the local council if you took on an aspect of work they prioritised. (In the 70s councils would give licences to use empty commercial property with only a token licence fee. I doubt any council nowadays would do that even with so many shops shut.)

And I cant see a women's centre being self financed, and private money would come with strings.

I've just realised I actually do have experience of one - the fantastic Women's Centre in Glasgow.

Can I blame blanking it on peri-menopausal brain fog?!

My encounter was brief and in a professional capacity. The Centre was/is welcoming, inclusive, supportive. The atmosphere was lovely. I especially liked that it was many generations coming together.

I liked that it offered space for women to do creative work, and chat to each other without judgement. That it was warm and positive. In some ways, it didn't need to provide all that much - space and time. Although I daresay there was a lot of work going into providing that space and time and all of the positive things I've listed above.

Okay, so my 'ask' from Women's Centres is to offer at least some hybrid classes.

I live very rurally and there's nothing like this available to me locally - childcare etc also make travel difficult. So - online/hybrid events are a great boon - there were lots of these over Covid years, but they seem to be reverting to all in-person. Which I can also see the great benefit of, but am hoping that at least some services will remain for those women (I think there are probably many) who struggle to attend centres in person.

I'm not idolising the past and I'm not suggesting we try to recreate it. I was explaining how the traditional women's centres I'd known had worked.

When it comes to craft groups/ socialising etc, the women's centres of old would have offered a room and facilities at a very reasonable rent for a women's craft group organiser to hold a session, but wouldn't fund it themselves unless the provision came from, say, the LA funding a mental health group that used crafts as part of its therapeutic programme.

The wonderful thing about the UK is that every town and many villages have community halls/ parish halls that offer facilities for groups to meet. There's nothing to stop anyone from holding these kind of events and charging a nominal £2-3 for people to attend to cover costs. And there's nothing to stop anyone applying for funding from the LA or any of the thousands of small trusts for a grant to set up a rural community crafts group or whatever.

I would prefer to see women's centres focussed on what some women desperately need to help them thrive (legal advice, mental health support, language lessons, basic computer skills, access to computers and other equipment, into-work training, therapy, health information) But I guess if they're going to adopt the social enterprise model or similar, they could make money with low-cost craft groups, yoga sessions etc to. subsidise the rest.

I take on board lots of what you have said! We held a conference with Queen Mary University of London to explore just these issues, and I think the view was the physical space is still important. I think the huge success of the FILIA conferences demonstrates how far women will travel to experience the joy of being together in one space with other women fighting similar causes .... and also dancing!!!! We DO have a business plan which demonstrates that a Centre could work as a social enterprise .... without those pesky strings!!!!

I used to volunteer at a women's centre once upon a time. 😊 There was a library (with lots of feminist books, which went over my head), counselling service, legal advice once a week and just a place to drop in and chat. There was a lot of chatting! It was based in tiny chaotic terraced house in need of repair.

I remember one similar to this in a university town. It wasn't in a terrace but the concept was similar. I used to visit to sit in peace, chat and sometimes volunteer. They used to play peaceful music and there were plants. It wasn't just for vulnerable and disadvantaged women it was for all women who wanted to connect and talk. A lot of consciousness-raising went on. I remember the feeling of calm and power that crept over me when the door closed behind me. It almost felt like magic.

It was the light and energy. It was different. I felt empowered by it but also very calm. Honestly, I think it was the sheer lack of the presence of men not just in their physical sense but their smell, chemical traces and energy.

I think the type of women's centre mentioned by ArabellaScott is how funders took the concept of Women's Centres and turned them into a sort of cross between social services and what used to be adult eduction.

I think the type of centre that YetAnotherSpartacus talks about is closer to the 70s concept. ie it was a space for women to get away from the demands on them whether family, work or whatever. But because they weren't managed by someone who presumed (like FiLia) that women have to be told what they should think about and enjoy, any women could say can I have a room for any evening to talk about and issue that was impacting them, or the idea to set up a campaign, or have a reading group. ie it was organic, like the concept of 70s Women's Liberation which was of autonomous grass roots women's groups meeting on their own terms, to do what seemed important to them. And on occassions network with other groups who might want to jointly campaign or hold a fundraiser for the local women's refuge.

But I am not sure we live like that now. Most women would think they get that via social media or whatsapp groups - or even mumsnet!

And of course we have the real dividing line, how could any women's centre, that wasn't primarily about providing support services, be able to withstand demands that they were being discriminatory, or even transphobic, if the purpose was to provide a positive and useful space for biological women.

I attended a womens centre in Glasgow when my kids were small. It was a place for women to go for support and advice. They also had a crèche and ran classes eg, cooking on a budget. There was also a small cafe. It was a nice place to hang out and meet others.

Sadly I just looked it up and although it’s still going strong 23 years later, they claim to be inclusive to ‘all’ women.

There was a women-only café round the corner from where I lived in my second year at university. It wasn't called a Women’s Centre but that's effectively what it was - there were lots of drop-in advice sessions etc. It was very informal and the drinks/food were cheap and nobody cared how long you spent in there with just one cup of tea.

I remember well the London Women's Centre at Wesley House in Wild Court from the 1990s. I was a bit scared going there for the first time, as a precocious teenage budding third-wave feminist intimidated by my crunchier second-wave sisters. And I was right to be intimidated - they were super-smart, they were super-articulate and they spoke out!

I got involved with LGB women's activism at the London Women's Centre, and we did have some very (very) long arguments about abstruse points which seemed extremely important at the time - and they probably were. We cooked up wonderful plans, most of which came to nothing, and planned wonderful potlucks, all of which turned out excellently. I met women of all ages and from all backgrounds. I fell in love a few times, and I broke one (or maybe two) hearts.

I found the Lesbian Archive & Information Centre, crammed into a glorified cupboard that to me was an Aladdin's - or should that be Alesbian's - cave of wonder.

It was the best of times, the worst of times - until the Women's Centre died a death in the later 1990s, as Holborn gentrified and Camden Council went New Labour. I still think about it today: walking into a world that belonged to large, loud women taking up space, without apology or hesitation, the stairwell echoing with raucous, unselfconscious laughter. I had never met women like that before, and I've rarely met so many at once in the years since. RIP London Women's Centre.

re the London Women's Centre. Not sure how much I can say on a public forum, but in fact although the building was ownded by Camden the management group was supposedly independent of them. The main reason it closed is that those groups who have offices there and paid rent and service charge to the management group, found out too late the management group wasn't passing it on to Camden. Added to which another part of the building a well know classical music venue because of its natural accustics was leased to a group I wont name. And they to reneged on their agreement, meaning that Camden lost out twice. The beautiful musice venue had by then been ripped out and is now part of an upmarket tourist hotel.

The saddest part was that what should have been a real opportunity to provide a woman controlled space in central London failed because some chose to exploit their position.

The strangest part of the building was that there were 2 workplace nurseries in the building on the upper 2 floors. This meant that when there was a fire drill we were all meant to line up down the staircases and practive handing young babies and toddlers as this was thought to be the best way to get them out of the building quickly.

And on a historical note, one of the nurseries was in fact the original workplace nursery created in the early 1900s by someone really famous whose name I cant remember. I will google later and come back. So an historical women's project was in fact lost through the bad actions of other women. Depressing.

I know one well. It’s like a community centre for women. Started to support South Asian women in the area but can help any woman. Runs lots of courses to help women increase education, learn English or get work. Also runs fun activities and cultural celebrations. It’s amazing and very much needed in a poor neighbourhood.

Scotland used to have the Glasgow Women's Library but that fell a few years ago. But before they became men supporting traitors it was a wonderful place. i must return one of their books .... I need to decorate the envelope with lots of GC stickers.

I've been thinking about this. Perhaps various of us need to rent a community hall in our area for the day and create a pop-up women's centre — places where women can get together and socialise and, with a bit of luck, start a new women's centre movement.

@pattihews that sounds like a really good idea. I think if a women's centre isn't based on what local women want, it isn't really going to survive.

Are you going to give it a go in your area? :(