US woman sues after 'gender affirming' double mastectomy

[ArabellaScott]

'The defendants 'transgressed the bounds of socially tolerable conduct by abusing their positions of trust and authority' by recommending 'unnecessary, irreversible treatment' without weighing Kiefel's mental problems, says the complaint.

Because of the surgery, Kiefel must endure a 'lifelong inability ever to choose to breastfeed a child' and doubts she will ever find a 'life partner sexually and romantically attracted to a woman without breasts,' it adds.

Kiefel has called for a jury trial and seeks up to $850,000 in damages.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11399015/Oregon-woman-sues-trans-care-team-abhorrent-misdiagnosis-left-MUTILATED.html

Brace yourselves. The lawsuits are starting.

People are asking on social media whether or not transwomen can have periods and get pregnant. This is males, with neither uterus nor eggs.

This is what happens when you pretend sex doesn't exist.

This is what happens when men make endless videos on YouTube saying they are women and do absolutely experience periods.

This is what happens when men try to take a cocktail of drugs in order to claim that they are just as capable of breastfeeding as women.

This is what happens when high profile transwomen claim they have a cervix.

Children are being taught that they can change sex and are coming home from school to announce it to their parents.

A surgeon in America was challenged with all the mastectomies she was doing, and replied with, well if I cut their breasts off, they can always go and buy some more.

I have absolutely no doubt that this woman did not realise the implications of what she was doing. She thought she was neither male nor female, ffs, and everyone affirmed that!

No.

I don't know. It's a completely different situation isn't it and really not genuinely comparable but I suppose if it could be argued that their mental health meant they lacked the ability to make an informed choice and that they were not given the information they needed to have in order to understand the implications of the operation or were unable to absorb that information as given. 🤷

Children are being taught that they can change sex and are coming home from school to announce it to their parents.

Yep. There was probably a period of grace where everyone understood biology and how it works, that the 'new' terms for 'gender' substituting for 'sex' were still tacitly accepted and understood.

But the new generation are being taught 'gender' with no underpinning in 'sex'. The ideas, unmoored from material reality.

Poor kids.

It is significant though that in all three cases we now know of, that the claimants were late 20s or in their 30s getting treatments.

Maybe it is because they are older that they have the courage and bravery to withstand the stress of the trials. I mean, Keira Bell is bloody amazing for taking on what she did!!! These three people are also very brave to do it.

The other significance is that the discussion has been usually focused on teens and decisions made as teens. This is another layer. That vulnerable adults are being caught up here too.

This will have to force the discussion in the relevant countries and internationally about the disconnection of transitioning from mental health. As far as I can see, this is been to the detriment to too many trans people.

I wonder if in the future, there will need to be a huge amount of work on what gender dysphoria is, and how to diagnose it and that only those with severe enough cases get surgical treatments.

That's not an accurate analogy. The purpose of an abortion is not to render the woman infertile, it is to terminate the pregnancy that exists at that moment. Infertility would be a rare but unfortunate side effect of the surgery going wrong, it is not the desired outcome.

There is no possible outcome of a radical double mastectomy but to remove the breasts, and therefore the potential functionality to breastfeed.

I continue to ask, as I have for years, what is the diagnostic criteria that allows doctors or psychologists to recognise which gender-non-conforming children referred to them as 'trans' will desist and which will not. Because if there is no such robust diagnostic tool available, then it is abhorrent that irreversible surgery that permanently removes young people's fertility or ability to breastfeed is being performed on some kind of lottery, best guess basis after the most perfunctory consultations. Every doctor performing such surgeries off the back of a nebulous, impossible to define ideology should be struck off. It is fucking disgusting that a generation of young people are being turned into lab rats because of an ideology driven by [redacted to avoid deletion].

Children are being taught that they can change sex and are coming home from school to announce it to their parents.

This case is what we reap when we sow a culture of lies. This is why biological facts matter.

It's also probably the age around which women start to wonder about starting a family.

There's nothing like the issue of getting pregnant to focus you on what you can expect from your biology.

Hmm this is an odd one. If she claims she has mental health issues that's why she had the surgery, surely anyone else wanting to sue will have to admit to the same despite the chant of "we're not crazy, we just want to be what we feel" shouted by other trans groups

Thank you for responding. When I said unable to have children, I didn’t mean as a result of the abortion, just that later they ended up not being able to have more children and regret their choice.

Even if I left that bit out, a woman could have an abortion and then regret it. It is irreversible. Why is that not comparable?

Absolutely agree with this.

Agree with this. Is she saying that the therapists and the doctors told her
" you absolutely must have this surgery"
"There is no other option than a double mastectomy"?

Even if I left that bit out, a woman could have an abortion and then regret it. It is irreversible. Why is that not comparable?

I do not think anyone is under any illusion that an aborted child could be brought back to life at any stage. The implications of the decision are clear.

Here, it seems the implications of the irreversible surgery were not clear to the patient.

The Dr performing the abortion could not possibly have known a particular woman would end up infertile for unrelated causes later on. There is no link between the abortion and later infertility. Also, the woman is actually pregnant. An abortion does solve the ‘problem’ of pregnancy.

The young woman in this case is not non-binary as that is not a medical condition. There is no proper diagnosis of a condition, no way to confidently establish that condition and no firm evidence base the treatment will cure the condition. There is, however, an evidence base of the physical and mental effects of having both breasts removed.

a woman could have an abortion and then regret it. It is irreversible. Why is that not comparable?

Abortion regret is a known thing. There are support groups for it.
However the act of performing an abortion does not permanently alter your body irreversibly, unlike gender affirming surgery.
Also, pregnancy is based in science and actual reality where gender identities are not.

I think I read that 30% of mothers have had an abortion, only a small percentage regret it. It's a recognised, well established important public service that benefits not just the individual but all of society. Unwanted babies end up abused, in care and in prison as adults. So even if you have your own abortion regret you can still see the overall benefit to society.

Detrainitioners have completed woken up to the absolute fraud that is gender affirmative surgery. It helps no one. It's completely abhorrent.

I don't understand how
'I want my breasts cut off' would not equate to someone that this means their breasts are cut off and removed from their body.

@NippyWoowoo

I suspect you are just being Faux Naïve in this, but just in case you aren’t

The difference is that one is a procedure which affects one particular event in a person’s reproductive life. The other is a procedure which affects not only their reproductive but also quite possibly their emotional, social and psychological well being for the rest of their lives.

at the risk of being a police person , this is not a thread about ‘right to life’.

They are told it will improve their mental health. But it doesn’t.

They are being lied to about the root cause of their problems and lied to about the solution to it.

That makes sense.

I've always wondered about repercussions of life-altering procedures that people have and the implications of them trying to sue after.

Thank you for explaining

Instead of looking at it from the point of view of the woman, and asking whether she should have thought of the consequences of her actions, try looking at it from the point of view of the doctor. Doctors are supposed to follow the injunction: "Do no harm."

If you are a doctor, should you ever remove the breasts from a healthy woman, even if she asks you to? Even if she says she's sure that that is what she wants and she knows what she's doing? Isn't there a case for saying that doctors should never remove healthy body parts, except in those few rare cases where it might prevent cancer?

I think that the 'it is not a mental illness' will be hand waved away as 'there may be significant underlying mental illness conditions'.

However, it will be interesting how this develops. There is so many inconsistencies in this movement, hence it is why it can only be referred to as an ideology.

I genuinely was not! I've appreciated the responses from those who took the time to explain.

To put it another way, is there a case for saying that women who are genuinely trans should, with appropriate counselling and time for reflection, be able to take an informed decision that they want their breasts removed?

To answer this question, they'd need to define what 'genuinely trans' means. Is anyone 'genuinely trans'?

I don't understand how 'I want my breasts cut off' would not equate to someone that this means their breasts are cut off and removed from their body.

There was some stuff about this on Twitter with some transitioners apparently under the illusion that breasts could grow back.

it sounds bonkers to me too, but these poor kids have been fed so much bullshit, nothing would surprise me now.