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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

American swimmer speaks out

23 replies

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2022 09:22

Riley Gaines speaks about the pressure that the female swimmers were under to keep quiet about both being beaten by a cheat, and about the male walking freely around their changing room.
www.telegraph.co.uk/swimming/2022/11/08/raced-lia-thomas-still-feel-burning-injustice/

OP posts:
Smogtopia · 09/11/2022 09:32

Any way to read the full article for free?

Helleofabore · 09/11/2022 09:57

Plug the URL into archive .ph.

Helleofabore · 09/11/2022 09:58

Thanks Ddraig.

It is good to see Riley still fighting. She is very brave.

Rightsraptor · 09/11/2022 10:04

I read the article for free, not sure why you couldn't @Smogtopia ?

It's wonderful that Riley Gaines is speaking up as courage calls to courage. I notice that her husband is British: I'm hoping a bit of British stropiness is rubbing off on her.

Good woman. 👍

Maerchentante · 09/11/2022 10:16

Good that Riley is speaking up.

I've coached younger swimmers for years while I lived in Germany, a few of them would swim at competitions, mostly local.
Only twice have I witnessed female swimmers being faster than males.
The first time it was a team/relay competition for under 10s where there should have been mixed teams. One team (later DQ'd) had girls only and won, but these four girls were the top four in the district, so not much surprise.

The other instance the one of the best male swimmers in our club did a training race against the best female swimmer in our club. She won by a narrow margin - another 25m and he would have overtaken her.
However, he was an out of shape, overweight 30 year old and she was about to compete in the Olympics.

None of "my" girls would have made it as far as they did if they had to swim against males identifying themselves to success.

IcakethereforeIam · 09/11/2022 10:20

It's always a bit of a gamble with Telegraph articles whether or not I'll be able to read them. I think you might get an article ration if you're not a subscriber. Thank you for the post, I can read it and the comments.

Would anyone with a subscription be willing to post a comment to ask people to sign the petition for the Equality Act, perhaps even post a link, if the Telegraph allows that?

BellaAmorosa · 09/11/2022 10:21

Good for Riley. She is much braver than I was at her age.

ArcticSkewer · 09/11/2022 10:23

Good for her.
Even more outrageous, she came joint 5th but they gave the male the 5th trophy and she got the 6th
Tell me he's got male privilege without telling me he's male

Helleofabore · 09/11/2022 10:26

Tell me he's got male privilege without telling me he's male

yep. And also that they understood the reaction if they didn’t give it to him.

fWIW I do think Riley was sent a 5th place trophy. It was just the ‘photo op’ that she used the sixth.

Good on her for keeping that in the sunlight.

Merlo · 09/11/2022 10:40

I can’t read the article, but as the mum of a female swimmer, I am so pleased to see people are talking about this. The injustice of it makes my blood boil.

Datun · 09/11/2022 10:59

“It felt,” she says, “like heartbreak. Women had dedicated their entire lives to this. We had spent 5½ hours every day in the pool. To have it taken away from you by somebody who, only a year earlier, would never have even qualified for this competition as a man? It was a total slap in the face.”

It's more than that. It's a disgusting display of collective misogyny.

“In the locker room, you’re comfortable for the most part being half-naked. It’s not necessarily a place of modesty. But it is a place where you don’t have to feel vulnerable.

“We were not forewarned about Thomas sharing our space. That’s absolute insanity to me. All of a sudden, the place goes silent and there’s a 6ft 4in biological male towering over everyone else, starting to undress. You feel this sense of total discomfort. It was the most bizarre experience. I walked out of there thinking, ‘Am I missing something? Why are people in authority not talking about how this is wrong?’”

Because they are complicit in a collective display of disgusting misogyny. Encouraging and supporting men who want to violate women's boundaries, their space and their dignity, and enable predation.

The backlash can occasionally be ferocious, but Gaines insists she has the emotional resilience to cope. “The negative responses I receive are purely along the lines of ‘you’re bad at swimming, ‘you’re ugly’ or ‘you’re a transphobe’. It rolls off my back. There’s nothing, in terms of science or even common sense, that invalidates my argument.”

Nope. Because it's misogyny, not science, not equality, not fairness.

Kim Jones, the mother of one of Thomas’s fellow competitors, protested vigorously against the presence of a biological male in female changing facilities, only to receive an email from the Ivy League saying that anyone who objected was advised to seek counselling.

Ffs

We're always told that the other teammates don't mind. We know they bloody do. They are being forced to shut up.

But in this, her first interview with the British press, she explains that she is now consumed by the quest for fairness for women in sport.

Good for her. I hope she finds Mumsnet.

waterwitch · 09/11/2022 12:05

I cannot imagine an argument to support this approach, the world has gone mad! Well done Riley for speaking out.
I can’t see the comments - how’s it looking?

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2022 12:51

waterwitch · 09/11/2022 12:05

I cannot imagine an argument to support this approach, the world has gone mad! Well done Riley for speaking out.
I can’t see the comments - how’s it looking?

The comments are overwhelmingly supportive of Riley. No one (male or female, most people post under their own names) is in any doubt that LT is a cheat. One man pointed out that currently he sends his daughters into the changing rooms alone because he is (rightly) not permitted. If a 6'4" man was in there, he couldn't let them go in.

OP posts:
Badger1970 · 09/11/2022 13:04

Good for her.

Glittertwins · 09/11/2022 13:17

Well done to Riley. I have a subscription and the comments are pro Riley

waterwitch · 09/11/2022 15:34

Thank you DdraigGoch and Glittertwins. Good to hear

nilsmousehammer · 09/11/2022 17:19

Because they are complicit in a collective display of disgusting misogyny. Encouraging and supporting men who want to violate women's boundaries, their space and their dignity, and enable predation.

That.

If male people have feelings about not being able to get naked where and in front of who they want or swim where they want regardless of impact on others, then it is appalling not to indulge and facilitate them to do this.

If female people have feelings about it? It is wrong of them, they should shut up, put up and get counselling if they can't get over it.

It makes an utter nonsense of pretending anyone driving this thinks these males are women. It's wholly sex based thinking, not just privileging but lauding penises and their power over non penis people.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/11/2022 17:37

Lia did sterling work in letting the sunlight in. The reaction to them & the subsequent firming up of rules around makes in female swimming is all thanks to them!

also Just wondering if any of our usual visitors will pop onto this thread to tell us that we’re mean & transphobic for not wanting a 6ft 4” fully intact male swimming competitively with women

OneFootintheRave · 09/11/2022 17:42

Helleofabore · 09/11/2022 09:57

Plug the URL into archive .ph.

Great tip. Thanks

Datun · 09/11/2022 18:45

Also, I want to thank Fair Play for Women. Nic and her team have been instrumental in this. As they are in everything to do with the unfairness of trans ideology in women's sport.

They tend to operate without fanfare, and their successes don't get the attention they deserve.

💐 to Fair Play for Women and thank you.

nilsmousehammer · 09/11/2022 19:04

Datun · 09/11/2022 18:45

Also, I want to thank Fair Play for Women. Nic and her team have been instrumental in this. As they are in everything to do with the unfairness of trans ideology in women's sport.

They tend to operate without fanfare, and their successes don't get the attention they deserve.

💐 to Fair Play for Women and thank you.

They are indeed fabulous.

CliantheLang · 09/11/2022 19:44

IcakethereforeIam · 09/11/2022 10:20

It's always a bit of a gamble with Telegraph articles whether or not I'll be able to read them. I think you might get an article ration if you're not a subscriber. Thank you for the post, I can read it and the comments.

Would anyone with a subscription be willing to post a comment to ask people to sign the petition for the Equality Act, perhaps even post a link, if the Telegraph allows that?

Margaret Pearson has.

American swimmer speaks out
IcakethereforeIam · 09/11/2022 20:02

Yay Margaret!

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