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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal action against Eventbrite for unlawful discrimination

541 replies

Spero · 07/11/2022 21:43

On Oct 27 2022, Eventbrite pulled my book launch event for 'Transpositions - personal journeys into gender criticism'. This was a collection of stories from men and women about how they got involved in issues around sex and gender. Some of you may have contributed.

They told me that I was promoting 'violent and dangerous' content. I asked them to explain themselves. They haven't. So I am taking them to court for unlawful discrimination against my gender critical belief.

I wrote about it in the Critic here thecritic.co.uk/why-is-eventbrite-obstructing-my-book-launch/

I am hoping that some people may feel able to do a spot of gardening. I know its dark and miserable and not the best weather for gardening, but I think this could be quite an important piece of digging. There are some really important questions to ask about how private companies, based overseas are allowed to dictate what we think or say.

OP posts:
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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:13

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:46

Well, anyway, I’m done giving OP the benefit of my twenty years in international contract law for free. If she wants to spend her (and your) money pursing this that’s her choice.

How many of those contracts were governed by U.K. law?

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:25

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:13

How many of those contracts were governed by U.K. law?

Most of them.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:29

No contract is under U.K. law. It’s not a thing. Scots law is different from English law so a contract is subject to either English law or Scottish law but never U.K. law.

ItsLateHumpty · 08/11/2022 12:37

Is this good advice similar to the quality legal advice I read about from Good Law Project, who seem to loose (or moon walk out of) cases they bring?

I dunno why but it brings to mind the SH version of legalise.

IANAL so could very well be swinging the wrong golf club, but if I can afford to punt a few £ I guess that’s my look out 🤷🏻

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:46

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:29

No contract is under U.K. law. It’s not a thing. Scots law is different from English law so a contract is subject to either English law or Scottish law but never U.K. law.

MoD international contracts are. 🙄

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't know why you get so aerated when I say I don't read what you write. You can't possibly think that your posts are coming across as a desire to help women, rather than to stop them.

LunaLights · 08/11/2022 12:47

ItsLateHumpty · 08/11/2022 12:37

Is this good advice similar to the quality legal advice I read about from Good Law Project, who seem to loose (or moon walk out of) cases they bring?

I dunno why but it brings to mind the SH version of legalise.

IANAL so could very well be swinging the wrong golf club, but if I can afford to punt a few £ I guess that’s my look out 🤷🏻

100%

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:51

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:46

MoD international contracts are. 🙄

Find barrel, scape bottom of barrel - claim international agreements involving a department of the state is relevant to a dispute between private persons.

You are very entertaining

Spero · 08/11/2022 12:55

Discovereads · 07/11/2022 23:54

They told me that I was promoting 'violent and dangerous' content. I asked them to explain themselves. They haven't.

Always a good idea to read the T&Cs I think when asking yourself, why has my contract been terminated?

”16. Our Community Guidelines
You agree to abide by the Eventbrite Community Guidelines whenever you use or access our Services. Please read these carefully, as they affect what types of content and conduct are permitted on and through the Eventbrite Services.”

Community Guidelines:
”Hateful, Dangerous, or Violent Content or Events Don’t Post Hateful or Dangerous Content or Events That Discriminate Against or Threaten Any Societal Group, or Encourages Violence. This includes: Hate speech, hateful ideologies and hateful activities that incite, encourage or engage in violence, intimidation, disparagement, harassment, or threats targeting an individual or group based on their actual or perceived race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, immigration status, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, age or veteran status Terrorist symbols, activities and organisations or organised criminal activity”

“17.3 Additional Rules About Your Content. Your Content must be accurate and truthful. Eventbrite reserves the right to remove Your Content from the Services if Eventbrite believes in its sole discretion that it violates these Terms, our Community Guidelines, or for any other reason…”

Not surprised they have ignored you, by signing the T&Cs, you literally agreed they could in their sole discretion remove your content for any reason. So even if you prove your content was not hateful, dangerous or violent content, their fall back is so what? You agreed that we can remove it in our sole discretion for any other reason.

Oh, and U.K. “rule of law”? Doesn’t apply because you also agreed to:
“23. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction
These Terms are governed by the laws of the State of California, without regard to its conflict of laws rules. These laws will apply no matter where in the world you live. But if you live outside of the United States, you may be entitled to the protection of the mandatory consumer protection provisions of your local consumer protection law. Eventbrite is based in San Francisco, California, and any legal action against Eventbrite related to our Services and that is not precluded by the arbitration provisions in these Terms must be filed and take place in San Francisco. Thus, for any actions not subject to arbitration, you and Eventbrite agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the federal or state courts (as applicable) located in San Francisco County, California.”

There are some really important questions to ask about how private companies, based overseas are allowed to dictate what we think or say.

You literally allowed them to make these decisions regarding publishing/hosting your content by agreeing to their T&Cs for service. This doesn’t affect what you think or say, it just means you have agreed in advance that they can refuse you their service of hosting an event advertising content including what you think or say. US & CA rule of law also doesn’t include political belief like GC as a protected characteristic against discrimination laws.

I am taking them to court for unlawful discrimination against my gender critical belief. Good luck with that!

You cannot compel a citizen of another country to contact out of their statutory rights. That's why I say it will subvert the will of Parliament. Anyway - it will be interesting to find out!

OP posts:
Spero · 08/11/2022 12:56

MissPollysFitDolly · 07/11/2022 23:04

You are very brave, go get 'em!

Where do we dig?

It's my pinned tweet at @SVPhillimore

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 08/11/2022 12:58

MoD international contracts are

Ok, so you are an arms dealer. Charming. I always like to learn about compassion from arms dealers.

Spero · 08/11/2022 12:58

Apollo442 · 08/11/2022 03:29

@Discovereads you could write the moon is made of cheese in your T&Cs but it doesn't make it so. A private company doing business here in the UK has to abide by OUR laws and answer to OUR courts. You cannot refuse service because of someone's race, religion, disabilty or sexual orientation and as been proven in court, being GC IS protected under the Equality Act. You can take their T&Cs and wipe your arse with them. They have broken the law.

I don't profess to know the Equality Act inside out (that's why I need a specialist solicitors) but that does strike me as a fair précis of my position!

OP posts:
Spero · 08/11/2022 13:00

TirisfalPumpkin · 08/11/2022 07:17

Unenforceable terms are a thing. You can’t just write into a contract ‘we can decide to violate equality law at our discretion and by signing up you agree to this.’

I’m feeling a bit of digging fatigue to be honest, I think there are more important causes at the moment and we don’t need to sue everyone who acts like a plank, but good luck with it.

This isn't just 'acting like a plank' is it? It's a very clear example of a private company attempting to subvert our laws and a clear threat to our democracy. But of course if you don't agree, don't donate. I just think it's missing the point to say 'o well just Eventbrite being silly!'.

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 08/11/2022 13:00

The 2010 Equality Act prohibits discrimination against people with protected characteristics in the provision of goods and services.

Belief is a protected characteristic.

Datun · 08/11/2022 13:03

You cannot compel a citizen of another country to contact out of their statutory rights. That's why I say it will subvert the will of Parliament. Anyway - it will be interesting to find out!

it will be. And apart from anything else, the women in the country need to know exactly which service providers are subject to our discrimination laws.

Then we can be discerning about who we choose.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 13:04

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:47

I don't know why you get so aerated when I say I don't read what you write. You can't possibly think that your posts are coming across as a desire to help women, rather than to stop them.

It is upsetting for you to be so blatantly prejudiced against me that you presume to criticise and pass judgement on something you have refused to read.

We must have different definitions of help. Sometimes helping is giving unpalatable truths rather than what people want to hear.

Spero · 08/11/2022 13:05

Discovereads - as you are trying to be helpful, could you explain to me which parts of my book launch are 'violent' 'dangerous' or 'hateful' content? Eventbrite won't and I just can't see it. I would be very grateful for help to avoid wasting everyone's time and money, so will be very interested in your explanation and why I can't claim the protections so clearly set out in Forstater.

OP posts:
SquirrelSoShiny · 08/11/2022 13:08

Following with interest.

Spero · 08/11/2022 13:08

Anyway thanks to everyone who has donated and commented. It will be interesting and necessary to test this. If private companies can operate in the UK and yet not be subject to our laws, we all need this to be very clearly set out and start raising rather urgent questions about the impact this is likely to have on our parliamentary democracy.

OP posts:
Discovereads · 08/11/2022 13:15

Coyoacan · 08/11/2022 12:58

MoD international contracts are

Ok, so you are an arms dealer. Charming. I always like to learn about compassion from arms dealers.

Ukraine appreciates the arms we are sending.

Or would it have been more “charming” and “compassionate” to just let Putin rampage across the country killing and raping before formally annexing the Ukraine to Russia?

When you & others posted “I stand with Ukraine” were those just empty words? What did you think actually standing with an ally being invaded by a totalitarian autocratic nation bent on imperialist reconquest means?

Thoughts and prayers?

Sitting thousands of miles away in front of a screen and doing a virtue signalling tweet? Or a FB profile with a Ukraine flag? A day out in London to wave a sign about? Creating and laughing over Putin memes? Hosting a refugee that you don’t give two shits about until they’re actually here and in front of you in person?

Datun · 08/11/2022 13:16

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 13:04

It is upsetting for you to be so blatantly prejudiced against me that you presume to criticise and pass judgement on something you have refused to read.

We must have different definitions of help. Sometimes helping is giving unpalatable truths rather than what people want to hear.

Well there you go, spero has asked you for more fleshing out of your first post about the Ts and Cs Eventbrite are using.

If you're genuine, I would certainly be interested in why you think the the case will fail, and then to see speros counter argument.

PotentiallyPolly · 08/11/2022 13:18

Well I shan’t be using eventbrite again and I’ll be speaking to our events coordinator to make sure we find an alternate platform.

Good luck OP, and if you decide to use an alternate platform for your book launch let us know!

Coyoacan · 08/11/2022 13:33

US arms dealers are what is passing for the left, nowadays.

CriticalCondition · 08/11/2022 13:35

Good luck, Spero. I have fetched my spade.

As to Discovereads' legal analysis, I am prompted to an appropriately lawyerly response, namely that I shall give their comments all the attention they deserve.

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