Gender Swapped Greek Myths

[IcakethereforeIam]

Interesting article from the Guardian on a new book. It seems the writer and illustrator have previously gender swapped fairy tales. I think it is fair to use gender (although I've not read the books) because they keep the stereotypes and it highlights how, frankly, psychopathic behaviour is just accepted in male characters.

www.theguardian.com/books/2022/nov/07/it-was-exciting-to-create-these-beastly-huge-grotesque-women-the-authors-gender-swapping-the-greek-myths

In some legends, Tiresias had his sex changed by magic, currently in short supply whatever the tras assert. Hera would have been GC.

The Worlds Wife is great, isn't it. Personally think that Madeline Miller's writing is dull - give me Mary Renault any day - but I know I'm in the minority.

Interesting- might give The Worlds Wife a go. I liked Circe by MM.

I listened to a recent ish new translation of The Odyssey a while ago - the first translation into English by a woman. It’s a great read / listen - very clear and beautiful. And there are long but v interesting introduction sections too.

amp.theguardian.com/books/2017/dec/08/the-odyssey-translated-emily-wilson-review

It’s not a “story retold from this perspective” - it’s a proper translation. But like all translations of poetry, there are styles and ways of doing it that reflect the translators views and perspectives, as well as the style they choose. This line, spoken in the poem by Helen of Troy, is a case in point:

“They made my face the cause that hounded them.” This last line is translated by Fagles as “shameless whore that I was”, and by Stephen Mitchell as “bitch that I was”. The Greek is kunopis, a rare word literally meaning dog-face, or dog-eye. There are few contexts in which to see this word in use, but it is applied by Euripides to the Furies, terrifying creatures that “hound” murderers. It does not carry, argues Wilson, the overtones of female sexual destructiveness that are often applied in its translation. And so another small but significant transformation is effected.

I read the Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker and enjoyed that. I think there's a sequel.

I've got Circe but not read it yet, I'd not heard of the World's Wife, another one to keep an eye out for.

The World’s Wife has been out for years. The last poem ‘Demeter’ always brings a tear to my eye. I think it’s because my daughter explained it to me over dinner one night then read it to me, very beautifully, afterwards. I gave her such a big hug.

The World's Wife is fab.

Lovely anecdote, Zanda.

And yes, a great poem: archive.ph/bRWbu

There’s no point comparing the divine to humans. The reason the gods and goddesses could violate every human moral law is because they were not human. Every rape Zeus did was proof he was not human. Every baby Hera murdered was proof she was not a human mother.

The Greeks were not meant to compare themselves or see their gods or goddesses as role models. They were beings meant to be feared and obeyed to whom no mortal law or sense of morality applied.

I liked "Circe" except the end. My parents doomed me to collecting as many versions of the Odyssey as I could, and that book writes against the foretelling of Tiresias of Odysseus' ending. As do many other attempts at sequels. I look forward to trying Emily Wilson's translation. I think it is worth pointing out that Homer, even in men's translations, treats the female characters (except the Ithacan servants) with sympathy.

Totally agree. What an epically missed opportunity 🤦‍♀️

Robert Graves wrote Homers Daughter, which posited that the writer of the Odyssey was a woman, Nausicaa, because there are an unusual number of female references in the book.

Sausagenbacon i SO agree about the marvellous Mary Renault! She came to my school when I was 11 (long ago) and although I can't remember what she said, she had a great impact on me. Her books have been important to me.

On a side note Artemis was actually in Greek mythology sometimes a God and sometimes a Goddess. Even today I’m Greece, it’s a unisex name.

I don't think Graves was the first to suggest Homer was a woman. Samuel Butler in the 19th century raised the idea. Someone thought that the ship's rigging being inaccurate was evidence for this. Interesting case of reverse transing* and for a weak reason. Not apparently applicable to Graves.
*Reverse because uts usually done to a woman.

Because testicles give you an innate understanding of boat ropes, obviously.