Why woman?

[waterwitch]

Really curious that when some men feel that the gender ‘man’ doesn’t work for them, they jump to ‘woman’. Apparently there are many genders, so why not choose one of them, or indeed make up your own? What are the characteristics these men feel they share with women, and on what basis do they think they have any conception of how it feels to be a woman?
Sort of hoping Marge might offer an opinion 🤞

You don't get to dominate and impose yourself on an existing sex class by choosing one of the "other genders".

When as a man you choose "woman" as your gender, you gain a sense of emboldenment that the other genders can't offer.

I’ve wondered this too. It’s almost as if they’re acknowledging that sex is binary…

@Circumferences think you may have a point - which is why TRAs will loudly defend TWAW, but I hear much less of TMAM

I always wondered why there is no outrage from

... TRAs over lack of toilet provision for the myriad other genders? Are these poor people forced to stay home? If only there were charities and lobby groups able to bend corporate and government ears about their plight!

I think it's a bit like invading another country, you don't give a shit about the inhabitants but get to take all their stuff and play with it, then trash their belongings and traditions. They'll probably go and invade something else when the novelty wears off - let's hope it's not childhood.

Men have tried everything else to bring us down. Becoming us is the most recent and most insidious.

I don’t know. My husband has a very strong “feminine” side. He likes games that are traditionally played by women. He enjoys music sung by a female voice. He is not opposed to chick flicks. He is not put off by the colour pink. He even admits that he doesn’t like other men all that much and he prefers to chat with women as opposed to men. But even with all that he considered himself a man. A man further down on the feminine side of the scale but a man all the same. He was teased for being “gay” as a young boy growing up. But he is very much not attracted to men. He jokes that if he was born ten years later he would have been told he was an “egg” as the online trans community calls “unawakened” trans people. The sad thing is I imagine he would not be wrong. I think he also went through a phase of hating himself for being a man because of past abuse. He has learned to accept himself though. And if he had transitioned we wouldn’t have our beautiful daughter together.

There are two main sorts, with plenty of branches, subgroups, and overlap. The colonists, as described by several PPS. And the confused/distressed males who feel somehow not-male, but don't have any label for not-male, therefore think that the label for the other group of humans (you know, the ones who males are not) applies to them.

I'd just like to know, what surgery is needed precisely, to turn someone into an ornate building?

Interesting insight on this theme in Tsevea's account on the Transwidows Voices which I was reading today as Tinsel shared that a new woman's voice has been added. In the words of the writer:

"He didn't want to buy his own stuff. He WANTED MINE. He liked MY things. He wanted to look like me. Wear my clothes. Wear my shoes. Have me put my makeup on him."

This suggests that in this case the identity of the person's own wasn't the desire: it was to be a part of a biological female, to take on their form and feeling. Perhaps this is an insight as to why third spaces really won't do: it would mean a feeling that the 'real' women were still somewhere else, unattainable, not there to take the essence of womanhood from.

That’s really interesting Nilsmousehammer. I haven’t read any TRA stuff explaining why they want that validation (although it’s clear that they do). It’s almost as if being accepted as a woman by other women is the pinnacle - even if that has to be by force.
I agree with pp’s who point out there is more than one group here, and their needs and motivations are very different

In a similar vein, I'd love to know from genderists in their own words why it's so important that genders take the pre-existing names of sexes.

Trans women's existence is literally proof that sex and gender are different so why on earth can't they just have different names?

If the feeling shared by cis- and trans- women had from the start been given a separate name to that used for adult human females, one for a fact of body and one for an aspect of mind, no one would have ever even considered that that feeling somehow entitled trans women to female-only provisions.

So why on earth take the existing name and create this weird situation where it is being demanded that stuff set up under one meaning of a word has to be given over to other people simply because they use the same word to mean something different? Just think of all the confusion that could have...

Oh. Except that's the whole point isn't it? Appropriate the name, appropriate the spaces, the resources, the voice.

It's occupation and colonisation.

^ this.

Exactly! 'Being woman gender' means nothing because you can be a man and wear what you like, do a job you like, have whatever personality you feel is yours, even body modification is optional. Literally the only thing TW seem to need to 'be a woman ' is making other people, especially women, engage in their fantasy by accepting them into spaces they are, as male bodied people not entitled to enter. It's almost like a game of manipulation and domination. Creating their own spaces and own unique gender would simply not be such fun.

If the feeling shared by cis- and trans- women...

What feeling is that? **

I don't know, I don't have it.

But I don't need to.

If some male people and some female people feel they share a common mental thing I'm happy to believe them.

It's not the same thing as sex though, and it shouldn't be called the same thing.

Don't think my post is going to work as it immediately got took out for it to be looked at.
I was saying I watched a disturbing film called "What is a woman? Wrong answers only".

I didn't paste a direct link as I didn't want people to click accidentally. It is on Odyssey so you can search for it.

Shows the gross links between pornified versions of women and dominance and degradation.

The themes of misogyny, domination and control, and sexual fetish would certainly tally with the involvement of MRAs, and the appalling threats of rape and violence. I’m sure some TRAs are very consciously driven by these things.

We also hear stories (although much less vociferous, obviously) of ‘the lovely transwoman who works in accounts and seems much happier since she transitioned’. I haven’t come across anybody like this, but from the descriptions of women who do, those transwomen don’t overtly display the same motivation. Why do those transwomen think they’re women?

I do know a couple of the 'nice TW' and I genuinely like them as people. I've wondered why they felt the need to 'become women' and come to the conclusion that some young boys are given a very strong message that they are not men. I think they are bullied for being small, gentle, quiet, vulnerable, and told 'man up' or 'you're such a girl'. Rather than becoming men who stand up for boys who are like them and challenge what it means to be a man, gender ideology has given them a different option - the idea that if they are not men, they must be women. In their head, they have retreated into this safe space where they don't have to feel like inadequate men anymore and they find it much easier to be women because all they have to do is put on the right clothes, accentuate the 'feminine' side of their personality and hey presto, in their head they are nailing 'womanhood'. (They're not really part of gender ideology - it is all about old fashioned men and women)

This is why this whole situation is so damaging. These TW will always be unhappy because they live life constantly needing validation and anytime reality intrudes they are taken back to their childhood trauma. They pivot between the adoration of those who fawn over TW and open the door to these sacred female spaces, making them feel suddenly special and those pesky GC people who won't play along (and falsely group these with the genuine abuse which they do sometimes get), creating bitterness. They open the door for any men who decide to 'be women' for the other reasons mentioned and play on the sadness, and they reinforce harmful stereotypes that being a woman is all about clothes, breasts and being less than men.

As I say, I do like the TW I know and there is no malice in their decision to 'become women' but I feel sad that they are vulnerable people caught up in all this and couldn't just be happy as men which would have been far healthier in the long run.