Gender Reform laws provoke biggest ever SNP revolt

[JanieAllen]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-reform-laws-provoke-biggest-ever-snp-revolt-0sspzfbzg

9 unwhipable MSPs could be a massive headache for Nicola.

The whine from the activists outside that men have always used female spaces when they wanted to (so shut up and let men do what they want in peace, don't listen to females)....

crack on guys, the world is listening to the misogyny oozing out.

If Scottish people are intelligent, then why do they vote for Nicola Stugeon?

MariEllie, many are starting to wonder why! The SNP are were completely focused on independence. They position themselves as the antithesis to the Westminster govt, 180 degree policies to Westminster, socially responsible etc., but, scratch the surface and it all falls apart. Pp upthread said they are chasing the youth vote. I have young relatives at high school in Dunfermline. The stuff that's going on in the school is horrifying.

Scotland is close to becoming a totalitarian state. Tha5 is what independence will bring. Good luck to them!

Most people do not actually do any research regarding politics they pick their 'tribe' and stick to it. Though I have heard that most SNP activists are against GRA reform and its a small minority pushing it. We need more people to stand up and say no.

Agree that people “pick a tribe” and once they have done this, they take the word of their tribe - especially self-proclaimed Guarniad readers - as the word to follow without an ounce of reflection or critical thinking.

From the graun (sorry)

Scottish Labour’s social justice spokesperson, Pam Duncan-Glancy, said on Friday that Labour would seek to amend the bill to make clear that nothing in it affects the protections in the Equality Act – a central concern of critics of the proposed legislation – in order to “bring people together, reassure those with concerns, and deliver legislation that everyone can have confidence in”.

How in the name of all that is holy can you have single sex spaces if both sex categories contain people of both sexes?!

I think my head might explode! Are these people really so hard of thinking, or do they think we are?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/28/scottish-labour-vows-to-bring-people-together-over-gender-recognition-reform

"If Scottish people are intelligent, then why do they vote for Nicola Stugeon?"

Maybe they prefer her to Boris, Liz truss, rishi etc. They also voted against brexit.

Of course Scottish people know NOTHING about Nicola she has more super injunctions around her than hot dinners.

A pity there were not more willing to stand up and be counted but all praise to those who did.

Well they prefer a left wing dictatorship to a liberal democracy.

"Well they prefer a left wing dictatorship to a liberal democracy."

Alarmist hysterical nonsense.

Nicola sturgeon has a clear democratic mandate and the snp ( with her as leader ) has been elected by the people of Scotland multiple times
get a grip

Oh, really? That's interesting.

That's not quite accurate as the percentage of the vote that the SNP has achieved at each election has been reducing each and every time to the point that they are only in power because of the deal they did with the Greens. Long gone are the days when they could command a large majority instead they are a minority government.
The thing is the SNP under Stergon has become a propaganda driven dictatorship where any dissenting voices have been silenced and or pushed out, which in reality means that all the sensible moderates have been purged and all that is left are the rabid extremists of1 ilk or another. People are beginning to see this and even the most die hard independence supporters are asking questions whether those questions are about the potentially criminal behaviour (alleged by the BBC investigation) over the ferries contract award and subsequent fiasco. The schools and NHS rapid decline in standards and outcomes. The fact that scotrail has gone from bad to worse (didn't think it was possible to get any worse) since it was nationalised. This bill ontop of all the others that have come a cropper in the courts.
However what will really end her and her government is the current court case over the referendum and the fact that she has said that if (when) they lose they will turn the next election into a referendum in which they will count not only SNP vote but those of other parties too as part of her mandate. This is a massive overreach by her that has raised much concern amongst remainers and pro independence alike and has the potential to hand Scotland to the tories at the next General election in protest.
Basically things are much more complicated up here than an outsider might think from looking in

"That's not quite accurate as the percentage of the vote that the SNP has achieved at each election has been reducing each and every time to the point that they are only in power"

Elections means it is NOT a dictatorship, clearly.

John Mason, MSP for Shettleston, was interviewed in R4 World at One yesterday and gave a very clear and concise set of reasons as to why he defied the whip. Worth a listen - here at 31.04 in.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ddxg

He also said quite a lot of his colleagues were swithering, so maybe letters to MSPs might give them the nudge they need?

As I say they prefer a left wing dictator.

And one who doesn’t believe in the scientific facts of biology!

Nicola is screwed. She can't afford to withdraw the whip from nine rebels as she will lose her working majority. She can't really discipline them at all as self-ID was not in the SNP manifesto! So she has to do nothing which means they suffer no ill consequences so they will feel braver going forward and more might now join them next time around.

So if you have SNP MSPs, write to them to ask them why they support a bill that is so full of holes when they were not elected on a platform for self-ID!

Oh and every man and his dog knew Ash Regan didn't support the bill. She signed a letter to a newspaper with Joan McAlpine and other SNP politicians in 2019.

Nicola needs to get herself some new advisers! Ones that read newspapers.

@Hoardasurass how can and will they do this?

‘…referendum in which they will count not only SNP vote but those of other parties too as part of her mandate.’

Interesting to see how this plays out.

As noted above there are many complex political issues entangled in it. 'Gender' is a bit of a maguffin, imo. As ever it's about power and control.

@Skyellaskerry she has said that a vote for any so called pro independence party will count as as a vote for independence. This means that anyone who votes green, Alba (a gc party) possibly lib dems and Labour depending on what they say about it next GE (to try and win votes) will under Stergons rules will be voting for her and independence.
As I'm sure that you can understand this blatant dictorial power grab is causing many people on both sides of the independence debate quite a bit of concern and anger as her so called mandate would never hold up to scrutiny and has shades of how a certain German dictator came to power.
Everyone I know even the independence at any cost are beginning to say not at this price

@Hoardasurass wow I see what you mean.

Interesting that in its white paper on the economics of independence, the Scottish government is clear that its central case for secession now rests on the argument that joining the EU is the key to Scotland’s future prosperity. Sturgeon aims to frame any future referendum not only as a choice about being inside or outside the UK, but ultimately also one of being inside or outside the EU. Yet that would require joining the Euro so Sturgeon insists Scotland would not join the Euro as that would be unpopular with Scots. So you have the blatant two-faced approach of the SNP