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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The real story behind drag queen story hour.

24 replies

AbsoluteTruths · 25/10/2022 18:32

Someone shared this on twitter, long but fascinating article on the real background to this drag agenda. Dismayed and a little depressed that two of the most notable academics pushing this agenda were women, Gayle Rubin and Judith Butler. Queer theorist, whatever that is.

www.city-journal.org/the-real-story-behind-drag-queen-story-hour

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 25/10/2022 18:40

I saw the poster the other day changed to 'men in lingerie want to spend time with your children hour' and yes, that gives a rather different view to the 'oooh diversity/sex positive (don't look at the manifesto)' stuff.

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2022 19:21

Babylon Bee, nils: bit.ly/3N6x9aj

zanahoria · 25/10/2022 19:40

There is not as queer as queer theory

zanahoria · 25/10/2022 19:41

Hould be - Nowt as queer as queer rheory

Circumferences · 25/10/2022 20:25

I wouldn't blame women entirely.

No doubt Peter Tatchell's "Queering the classroom" activism played a part.

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2022 22:48

Interesting article, thanks. Here's the link to the paper:

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03626784.2020.1864621

Drag pedagogy: The playful practice of queer imagination in early childhood
Harper Keenan & Lil Miss Hot Mess

'Classroom teachers might similarly work to address children’s feelings of shame by highlighting the arbitrariness of norms' Confused

'Queer worldmaking, including political organizing, has long been a project driven by desire. It is, in part, enacted through art forms like fashion, theatre, and drag. We believe that DQSH offers an invitation towards deeper public engagement with queer cultural production, particularly for young children and their families. It may be that DQSH is “family friendly,” in the sense that it is accessible and inviting to families with children, but it is less a sanitizing force than it is a preparatory introduction to alternate modes of kinship. Here, DQSH is “family friendly” in the sense of “family” as an old-school queer code to identify and connect with other queers on the street.'

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2022 22:51

'Building in part from queer theory and trans studies, queer and trans pedagogies seek to actively destabilize the normative function of schooling through transformative education...This is a fundamentally different orientation than movements towards the inclusion or assimilation of LGBT people into the existing structures of school and society.'

Itisbetter · 25/10/2022 22:55

I saw the poster the other day changed to 'men in lingerie want to spend time with your children hour 🤣 perfectly put

ArabellaScott · 25/10/2022 22:57

This from the original article in the OP:

'Kornstein and Keenan make no bones about it: the purpose of what they call drag pedagogy, or the “pedagogy of desire,” is about reformulating children’s relationship with sex, sexuality, and eroticism. They describe drag as a “site of queer pleasure” that promises to “turn rejection into desire” and “[transform] the labour of performance into the pleasure of participation,” and DQSH as offering a “queer relationality” between adult and child.'

Clymene · 25/10/2022 23:08

Thank you for this article. The trajectory is so clearly laid out.

There is a kid performing drag in Oregon at a bar. Some people protested on the bar's Facebook page and the bar was clear that they were the ones who were sexualising the child.

I took a look at the kid's drag Facebook page and was completely shocked - so many photos of this prepubescent kid with adult men in tiny costumes, lying on them, cuddling up to them. And the audience chucking cash. I've disguised the boy's face because he is a child. His drag Facebook profile is entirely open. I believe he is currently 11 years old.

The real story behind drag queen story hour.
The real story behind drag queen story hour.
The real story behind drag queen story hour.
ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 00:13

Thank you for that article. It is good to be able to understand more about the sort of thinking that drove DQSH.

Excerpt:
And the drag queen embodies Butler’s theory of gender deconstruction. “The performance of drag plays upon the distinction between the anatomy of the performer and the gender that is being performed. But we are actually in the presence of three contingent dimensions of significant corporeality: anatomical sex, gender identity, and gender performance,” Butler writes. “When such categories come into question, the reality of gender is also put into crisis: it becomes unclear how to distinguish the real from the unreal. And this is the occasion in which we come to understand that what we take to be ‘real,’ what we invoke as the naturalized knowledge of gender is, in fact, a changeable and revisable reality. Call it subversive or call it something else

Imagine putting very young children in the position where “It becomes unclear to distinguish the real from the unreal* about their own sex.

As for queer theory at the start and the aim to break down all barriers to sexuality if any kind including paedophilia, while Drag Queens may not be paedophiles per se, bringing children into the sphere of adult men in sexualised women’s clothing, is intended to disorientate them.

FrancescaContini · 26/10/2022 00:17

nilsmousehammer · 25/10/2022 18:40

I saw the poster the other day changed to 'men in lingerie want to spend time with your children hour' and yes, that gives a rather different view to the 'oooh diversity/sex positive (don't look at the manifesto)' stuff.

This certainly puts a refreshingly different, more honest spin on what actually goes on.

FrancescaContini · 26/10/2022 00:19

Those photos of the boy are very disturbing.

nilsmousehammer · 26/10/2022 08:22

The whole thing is very disturbing in its complete lack of proportion or grip on social appropriacy and norms. No, all of society should not be prancing about in stilettos and basques to demonstrate, it's not normal or appropriate to see this as some kind of paradise unless your spiritual home is a kink club. And most people don't struggle with understanding this. If you do hang around kink clubs, if its a good one, you know that forcing others to witness and participate in your fetish and kink is considered a breach of consent and the province of those with bad manners and no sense of responsibility.

It's like LOJ the other day, wailing that the LGBA conference was not 'diverse and inclusive' because there was a picture of people sitting in the audience. When asked how did he know the sexuality of those people and what did he mean 'inclusive'? He posted a picture of a group of people in furry costumes, adult babies, blue hair, drag... and said that.

No, Owen. That's not 'inclusive'. Groups are not 'under representative of the community' if they don't have several adults in nappies sucking dummies on the front row. Go to Tesco, a train station, your local high street store and look at the people passing by - they are the diverse representative population. The ones that keep the country going so that others can run around in basques and write bullshit about how grooming children is a really positive idea.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 08:57

nilsmousehammer· Today 08:22
When asked how did he know the sexuality of those people and what did he mean 'inclusive'? He posted a picture of a group of people in furry costumes, adult babies, blue hair, drag...

There seems to be an idea around that for people to ‘be their authentic selves^ their sexuality needs to be on show and validated.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 26/10/2022 09:23

While reading the article it occurred to me (again) that DQSH in fact upholds the binary and is absolutely anti woman.

Boys and girls will experience DQSH differently. Boys are being shown what they can be, do aspire to.

Girls are likely to pick up on two things here, they are excluded from drag, it is something that men do, women are being sexualised and ridiculed.

So girls are being put in their place, they will become derided and mocked sex objects, humiliated and powerless.

Boys can be FABULOUS and STUNNING and be CELEBRATED while they have a MARVELLOUS time mocking girls and women. That this involves boys being used as sex objects as above is horrific, there is a price to pay which obviously they will not understand at such a young age.

The article highlighted for me the connection with a NAMBLA type agenda.

The whole thing is so disturbing and sickening. The destruction of the family, of childhood freedom from adult sexuality, the attack on parents protecting their children. All of it.

ArabellaScott · 26/10/2022 10:12

ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 08:57

nilsmousehammer· Today 08:22
When asked how did he know the sexuality of those people and what did he mean 'inclusive'? He posted a picture of a group of people in furry costumes, adult babies, blue hair, drag...

There seems to be an idea around that for people to ‘be their authentic selves^ their sexuality needs to be on show and validated.

Not even so much their sexuality (not sure that is a meaningful category once you get into 'queer' theory) as their political and ideological stance.

PriOn1 · 26/10/2022 10:17

Ah yes. Men driving the agenda of spreading sex to children.

If it was really subversive and about societal change, there would be women at the forefront. Instead this is simply deviant men taking advantage of their maleness to get what they want.

gertrudy · 26/10/2022 10:21

This is sickening

nilsmousehammer · 26/10/2022 10:21

ArabellaScott · 26/10/2022 10:12

Not even so much their sexuality (not sure that is a meaningful category once you get into 'queer' theory) as their political and ideological stance.

And that all boundaries are there to be smashed.

And anyone who wants boundaries or resists this is a subhuman old fart who is worthless.

We've gone from the 'angry young men/enfant terrible' in the 50s to more 'total insanity in nappies and balaclavas'.

FrancescaContini · 26/10/2022 10:23

ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 08:57

nilsmousehammer· Today 08:22
When asked how did he know the sexuality of those people and what did he mean 'inclusive'? He posted a picture of a group of people in furry costumes, adult babies, blue hair, drag...

There seems to be an idea around that for people to ‘be their authentic selves^ their sexuality needs to be on show and validated.

Agree with you @ScrollingLeaves Who cares what consenting adults choose to do in private? Please keep your sex lives to yourself. Nobody gives a shiny shit if you’re gay/straight/bi or whatever label you give yourself. Nobody. Keep it to yourself, please.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 26/10/2022 11:24

ScrollingLeaves and FrancescaContini

I agree 100% with both of you.

suzyscat · 26/10/2022 22:53

PomegranateOfPersephone · 26/10/2022 09:23

While reading the article it occurred to me (again) that DQSH in fact upholds the binary and is absolutely anti woman.

Boys and girls will experience DQSH differently. Boys are being shown what they can be, do aspire to.

Girls are likely to pick up on two things here, they are excluded from drag, it is something that men do, women are being sexualised and ridiculed.

So girls are being put in their place, they will become derided and mocked sex objects, humiliated and powerless.

Boys can be FABULOUS and STUNNING and be CELEBRATED while they have a MARVELLOUS time mocking girls and women. That this involves boys being used as sex objects as above is horrific, there is a price to pay which obviously they will not understand at such a young age.

The article highlighted for me the connection with a NAMBLA type agenda.

The whole thing is so disturbing and sickening. The destruction of the family, of childhood freedom from adult sexuality, the attack on parents protecting their children. All of it.

Couldn't agree more.

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