Start Saying Sex-Based Pronouns!

[TayJay94]

I think sometimes there's a problem with people who see the issues with gender ideology not being unified on how we push back against it. I see a lot of other gender critical people saying they don't use pronouns... but we all do. I say "she" when I'm talking about a female I know and I say "he" when I'm talking about a male I know. We can't use names 24/7, it would make sentences ridiculous.

We should be a lot more unified in saying we use sex-based pronouns, not having some people saying that and others claiming they don't use pronouns at all when they clearly say he or she all the time when they're talking about people. It makes us look silly when some people say things that don't make sense, and i see lots of trans-identified people pointing this out and using it to argue that gender criticals don't make sense at all.

I use sex-based pronouns, as does almost everyone in the world. We should all be pointing that out!

That’s the position I will be using, thank you OP (no one gets to dictate how other people speak about them!)

I'm not sure I identify as one of this amorphous group of 'gender criticals' or any other group.

I am willing to jump through the many and multiple and difficult hoops to avoid using a pronoun a person has informed me they have intentionally disowned: but will use their name. Or they/them. Yes, it sounds ridiculous. It wasn't my choice, but that's the compromise I am willing to offer rather than flat out lying and saying things I don't believe, don't agree with and which would make me complicit in harming women.

I do however expect that to involve reciprocal respect and tolerance. If it doesn't, then no, I won' t be making the effort to care for the feelings of a person who is not willing to show equal care for mine. I'm not a doormat.

I won't use pronouns for jokers and for males quite obviously using this in order to exploit women. I will not for example be faffing around with and indulging a certain comedian depending on what mood comedian happens to feel like in the moment, but then frankly that person is hard work enough that at this point I'd walk a long way to avoid being in a situation where I needed to converse with them to the point of requiring me to use pronouns.

The MN approach I think is a fundamentally sensible one.

Although saying that, I'm with Rosie Duffield today in that Starmer, if he is truly stupid enough to try this at the point the electorate is fed to the back teeth with all our useless politicians regardless of party? He can come and get me too.

And then he can tell us how he plans to run this country when he's got half the taxpayers in prison and he's discovered whole new realms of unpopularity. Because the Stonewall voters won't be doing much to keep the country running. Nor will the university voters.

I would never say I don't use pronouns. If someone asks what pronouns I use, the answer is "All of them - it depends who I'm talking about". If someone asks whst pronouns I use to talk about myself: "I/me". My preferred prounouns: "That's a tough one - I like the retro ones like thou and ye, but I like we cuz it sounds rude"

Another example of how the trans ideology is insidiously distorting language.

What "I don't use pronouns" actually means is "I don't say she or he when referring to another person".

What the trans ideologists are pushing is for "I don't use pronouns" to mean "I can control your speech by forbidding you to use sex-accurate pronouns when you refer to me".

When someone says "My pronouns are..." they are wrong (unless they finish with "...I/me/my.") because the pronouns a speaker uses to refer to another individual are at the speaker's discretion. If words can be said to 'belong' to anybody, they belong to the speaker.

So would "I generally use sex based pronouns to refer to other people, and I don't mind what pronouns anyone uses to refer to me" work?

I'm tempted to be more difficult and say "please don't use gender identity based pronouns to refer to me because I don't have a gender identity".

Would it be possible for a believer of gender identity to refer to me as sex-based "she", or will they always be thinking of gender and wrongly assigning me a gender identity in their head?

After all, people who don't believe in gender identity are now asked to lie to themselves and others that they do when they use a gender identity based pronoun.

What the trans ideologists are pushing is for "I don't use pronouns" to mean "I can control your speech by forbidding you to use sex-accurate pronouns when you refer to me".

Well put.

Also, to 'I want to try to control you and your speech even further and compel you to lie to me and serve my choices even though I know this is not something you agree with and which makes you uncomfortable/unwilling'.

Because politely not using sex based pronouns to respect a person's wishes and using their name or 'they' instead, in some cases is rejected.

And at that point, it stops being about mutual respect and politeness and becomes about coercive control and exerting power. At which point, when dealing with someone who wishes to behave like that towards you regardless of their sex or choice of gender identity, the words fuck/off become much more relevant than pronouns.

Yes, what is Keir thinking? Labour are on the brink of power, unless Rishi (presumably it will be Rishi) is able to steady the ship quickly, Labour stand a great chance of winning the next election.

So Keir decides to capitalise on this by saying 'we would make misgendering a hate crime'...

I'd love to know how he intends to pull the UK out of this economic mess when he's locked up half the tax payers.

You make a very good point.
So not many nurses left, virtually no carers, child care all gone so men will have to stay home to parent, quite a lot of schools running on skeleton staff, even more men staying home to parent. And more but they are my first thoughts

The more I think about this the sooner we are all locked up, the sooner this shit show ends. And then in a year or two we petition whoever and get our criminal records rescinded and some compo for being locked up,without reason.
Yup
Get to it ladies.

Try to use sex-based pronouns here for someone who has identified out of them and your post will be deleted and you could end up being banned. That's why people carefully avoid pronouns in those cases.

Yes, which is why most of us will use contortions such as the person's name, or 3rd person plural pronouns (which are gender neutral), or even [pronoun], to avoid being dishonest or being banned for being honest.

I also wonder if I should counter any requests for my gender with the term “non gender” since I’ve never believed in it as an innate construct.

Curiously, if a male trans person has been found guilty of a sexual offence, MNHQ will allow us to correctly sex him.

Seems to be some kind of tariff or hierarchy that earns truth and honesty, rather than truth and honesty being the default.

I don’t think we’ll be locked up just locked out. Locked out of employment, possibly locked out of our bank accounts, barred from certain services. So yeah, I reckon we’ll be home doing childcare and housework under Labour and locked out of public life.

Arrested and harassed, put on a database, maybe fined, maybe professionally struck off for our speech, for rejecting male health workers for intimate procedures, and male police officers for intimate searches, for asking men to leave spaces where we are naked or vulnerable but no I don’t think they’ll lock us up, they’ll just lock us out.

I agree with you OP. Sex based pronouns, thank you, I’m going to adopt that as a policy and terminology.

Women may have to start remembering the phrase 'no taxation without representation'.

Or else we all identify as men. There can be the Master Race people of any sex, and we'll leave 'woman' for those who identify into their oppression. I'll wait for TW to rush into the shitwork and pick up the slack there.

I refuse to adhere to the ridiculous notion that I should put my "pronouns" in my email signature at work, my personal email signature, next to my username on Instagram etc.
I will also not be made to "ask pronouns" when speaking to someone.

Also, sex based pronouns are apparently a hate crime if what you perceive as someone's sex is not the sex they have decided they are.

Whenever TRA try to argue with a gender critical point of view, they can only ever do it by completely misrepresenting the GC point of view.

I think you’re on the money with this @PomegranateOfPersephone The last couple of years have shown us just how readily some governments will do that kind of thing and how willingly some populations will allow it. I live in NZ and that’s exactly what started to happen last year with people who chose not to get the Covid jab. Locked out and excluded, fired from jobs, unable to go to public places etc. And a big chunk of the population was ok with this approach and facilitated it by using all the scanning and apps - happy with it because on this particular subject they had the same view as the government. Others could see how this approach allowed the government to start flexing its muscle in that way and set up the infrastructure and narrative for them to shut down/exclude anyone for any reason they see fit in future. Canada took it a step further by blocking protestors’ bank accounts. I read stuff here where people thought that was a good thing for them to do, not realizing that they could find themselves on the receiving end of it in future. It’s not a big leap to imagine this type of exclusion/ shut down for having say GC views. It’s really alarming but many people simply can’t see it.