Near unanimity about pronouns/EI on Radio 4 just now

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Interesting. Broadcasting House currently on air, Radio 4, does a newspaper review at the end. Trevor Phillips has just picked a story about Rosie Duffield refusing to use she/her pronouns for Eddie Izzard. Presenter Paddy O'Connell put the three other people there on the spot and asked them if they would use them, and after a momentary hesitation, they all basically agreed with Trevor Phillips.

Forgot to say what Trevor Phillips said! Doh. He said it was troubling that we had reached a position where people using ordinary English were finding themselves in trouble at work. I think that was the gist.

I love Trevor Phillips. He's having none of this nonsense. I thought Paddy sounded a bit nervous

Who were the other people?

They all sounded incredibly nervous and uncomfortable, which is revealing in itself. But yes, they essentially all agreed that there was a “clear difference” (as I think someone said) between Eddie Izzard and a biological female.

I am a massive Trevor Philips fan. Shame he is not on things like question time more often to balance the panels out. He always has interesting takes

Well done Trevor and guests. Surely the tide must turn soon.

Sarah Sands and Kate Ferguson. They both sounded uncomfortable but good on them for not fumbling it. Sarah Sands said she had to take the same position as Trevor as they both belong to Index on Censorship (trustees? directors?).

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dd7q Starts just after 52 minutes.

(Two other people, not three as I said in the OP.)

Predictably there's already someone doing a sadface about it on Twitter, but several others who seem pleased.

Good

Trevor's been writing about trans extremism and its threat to women and democracy for some years now. Share token for a Times article from him back in 2018:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0fe1693a-d56f-11e8-926d-96790161a92a?shareToken=14d04c18d2269fdc4fbb9a75c3338475

I can’t believe the BBC are giving this nonsense airtime. Totally agree with Trevor and the people questioned…

Sarah Sands and Kate Ferguson.

Thank you. Sarah Sands is someone I am familiar with.

'we're in a very strange place'
'it's not disrespectful to say there is such a thing as a woman'
'would you call [Eddie Izzard] [a woman']?'
'um ah wah um er'
'I'm with Rosie'

(paraphrasing slightly)

Trevor also made an excellent C4 documentary about political correctness which discussed trans issues.

Kate Ferguson is the Political Editor of the Sun on Sunday, as of six weeks ago, I think she said.

Good that this was asked. There are so many useful idiots in politics fawning over men like E while failing to join up the dots about what's happening to children and women. They need to be forced to say out loud they don't care about safeguarding children and women's rights.

I like Paddy, but if he had a bit more about him, he could have followed up those answers with a question about how The Sun would refer to Izzard. What does IPSO require?

Paddy very much put the women on the spot, and I am sure Kate and Sarah would have preferred not to answer. But well done them for being honest. Their response very much how most people feel nowadays - not wanting to say anything and get dragged into it and getting attacked by TRA, but ultimately with their feet on the ground.

I thought the guests sounded nervous too. Especially the first woman he asked whether she would call Izzard a woman. She mumbled , laughed and said something about free speech.

Phillips is himself the living embodiment of Identity Politics. I remember him saying that ' people who talk about the class struggle are in a 70s time warp'. Diversity was the only show in town.

I wonder if he has reconsidered these issues? Class has never been more relevant surely. But then , if there's a way to lose , Labour will seek it out.

I wouldn't mind so much, but Eddie Izzard is a self confessed transvestite. Which is a man who gets aroused by wearing women's clothes.

He seems to think that the word, and the concept, transvestite, has been rebranded as transgender. Whereas, most people think that it's 'transsexual' that has been rebranded.

Not that I disagree with him. But many people who are busy 'rebranding', will reconfigure the criteria too.

Transvestitism is an adult paraphilia. Transgender has been re-marketed as something you're probably born with. In order to distance the concept from a fetish.

And it's not just a question of free speech, that just sounds a lot more justifiable. People can say I disagree with it on the basis of free speech and being able to talk about reality, instead of I disagree with it because it's absolutely sexist to the hilt, and attracts predators and fetishists.

And if all else fails, since when has the definition of a woman been 'a man who...(fill in the blank)'

It was a risky move coming out as what we used to call a transvestite, and I felt quite proud of myself

www.bigissue.com/culture/eddie-izzard-i-reclaimed-word-transvestite/

This is why I don't have any truck with any of it.

If there was ever such a thing as true trans, it's been completely traduced. I don't really give much credence to any of it.

He seems to think that the word, and the concept, transvestite, has been rebranded as transgender. Whereas, most people think that it's 'transsexual' that has been rebranded.

Very good point. There used to be two very distinct terms, that were pretty well understood. 'Transvestite' and 'transexual'.

These have now been collapsed into 'transgender'.

I heard it too Gasp0de! The whole genderthing is now mainstream and the genie won't be going back into the bottle. The more people talk about it the more the sunlight streams in