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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Think I may be losing the battle

20 replies

OkPedro · 21/10/2022 23:31

My daughter is 13. She told me last year that she is a lesbian. Grand, I support her of course. She uses an app called deviant art, she loves art she is really good at it. I read through a few of the threads most are "I identify as non binary" I have spoken to her about gender issues, how she can be a masculine girl. Humans can't change sex etc etc. However the last few weeks she has shut down, barely talks to me and if I try to chat about her being gay she won't engage. I'm not pushy at all believe me. I was speaking with the mother of one of her friends and the friend is truly on the trans train. Trying to encourage her younger sister to change pronoun's 😏
I don't know where to go from here. 😢

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 22/10/2022 01:23

I would get her off the internet as much as you can.

Get her involved in other things. In person. Unfortunately the arts are often not safe in terms of gender ideology. And kind of club or activity centered around sexuality is likely to be problematic.

ScaryFaces · 22/10/2022 01:31

Not really sure what you're worried is happening? Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality if she clearly doesn't want to engage with you on the subject? Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality in the first place?

ToGanymedeAndTitan · 22/10/2022 05:17

Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality if she clearly doesn't want to engage with you on the subject? Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality in the first place?
That was my exact thought too, why keep trying to chat to her about being gay?

Asdavaluesausage · 22/10/2022 05:31

I’m not being nasty but why the hell are you letting a 13 year old use deviant art? The clue us in the name. It’s not a nice jolly gallery of stuff suitable for kids. A lot of it is really really nasty stuff.. The first thing I would do is block that.

NotBadConsidering · 22/10/2022 05:41

That was my exact thought too, why keep trying to chat to her about being gay?

Because young teenage lesbians spending too much time on the internet need watching like a hawk because in the blink of an eye, their attempts to understand their own sexual orientation and place in the world as a female are quickly overwhelmed by gender ideologists telling them they are in fact a boy and should consider transitioning. If they are persuaded, they start the social transition process, schools blindly affirm, there’s a process of alienation, and a cascade of intervention that leads to binding, puberty blockers, testosterone and a lifetime of medical harm.

Take your faux ignorance elsewhere.

Ekátn · 22/10/2022 06:07

I can only advise you from my point of and experience. My dd is now 18. She is a lesbian and we are out the other side of the period where she grapples with Her gender identity.

Dont talk to her about her sexuality. Treat her like you would if you knew she was straight. Would you have started a similar conversation if she was straight? You may have done, I am just suggesting that’s maybe you something you think about. Engage her in conversation about anything and everything other that the gender question or her sexuality at first. Ask her opinion on things. I found that realising dd was listened to and had her opinions acknowledged made her open up about others things. I would disagree when talking but only after acknowledging I understood why she had the thoughts she had.

We would talk about all sorts. Lots about female issues. But lots of other things, politics, sport, what’s in news, Situations at my work, At her school, Discussions I had seen on here and I would tell her I would like to know what a female of her age thought and felt.

I would tell her how something played out at work and be really honest about being a woman in a male industry. Explain why things were not as straight forward as she saw. We talked about gender issues, but in relation to these other things. and I was honest with her with my thoughts, after listening to hers. She could see how ‘terf’ was being used to shut women down who had genuine concerns. She saw that GC women were not terfs. But this was after discussing other issues for a good while.

There was a gender questioning period. She was in a relationship with a trans boy. By this time she was used to telling me things, discussing them. I always encouraged her to listen to opinions, then think about what she wanted to do. It came to a head when she was told she couldn’t use the word lesbian in regards to her sexuality because it was transphobic towards the person she was dating. We discussed it. She was also questioning her own gender because she wasn’t a ‘girly girl’ and her circles encourages the pov that she may also be a trans boy. Eventually, after being told she wasn’t welcome at a students lbgtq+ group because she still used the word lesbian and admitted she would not date a trans girl, we talked about it alot and she realised the homophobia against lesbians was rife. And she realised that the encouraging her to present as a trans boy was part of that homophobia.

We have discussed her sexuality only when she brought it up at first. She did ask me how I felt about her being a lesbian. She is aware I am concerned about the homophobia she would face, but aside from that I am quite opinion less on it. I support her. I love her. What the sex of the people she is attracted to is not a big deal to me. While knowing and acknowledging it IS a big deal for her.

But we only got to a point where we could discuss these things, because she has got used to being able to express herself, be listened to but challenged, in a safe environment.

We both learned from eachother and I have been open that I did learn from her too.

She was at away at uni when Liz Truss resigned and called me to discuss it. She came home last night and we discussed the potential replacements, the possibility of a GE, wether sexism (on top of being shit) impacted Liz Truss’ resignation etc. Thats just how we are now.

sorry for the long post. But you need to create an environment where you talk and discuss lots of things. Not just the gender issue or her sexuality. It needs to be part of normal life. I grew up in a home where young people didn’t get to have an opinion on wider issues, even when it directly impacted is. Which causes all sorts of issues. I wanted a very different environment for my daughter and it’s worked out for us.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/10/2022 07:48

Yes to those suggestions about including her in every aspect of family / social life possible. Take discussions about sexuality off the table. Encourage her to see herself as a family member, a learner at school, a musician /singer/sportswoman/collector/ hobbyist / etc /etc. Whatever activities available to keep her grounded in the real world. Take her out - shopping / coffee /exhibitions
Sounds as if she's engaging in a level of self absorption that's maybe natural for an adolescent but must be balanced by seeing herself as part of the real world.

And if you don't, you really need to monitor her online presence. There are some seriously toxic people out there grooming children into all manner of self harming behaviour - as we've seen from the emerging Mermaids charity scandals. Don't let her isolate herself, bring her back into the family as far as is possible and focus on all the normal aspects of life to help her re balance herself.

ArabellaScott · 22/10/2022 08:00

Listen to her.

You don't need to talk to her so much as. Listen. That can be harder than it seems. Set a date for special time and make it clear thats what it is. Take her out somewhere, get out of your usual places and routines. Go for lunch. Go for a good long walk.

Learn to sit with silence. She'll test to see if you're listening- small trivial questions. If you can show that you're listening and will not respond with judgement then hopefully she will start to open up.

Iliveonahill · 22/10/2022 08:04

ScaryFaces · 22/10/2022 01:31

Not really sure what you're worried is happening? Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality if she clearly doesn't want to engage with you on the subject? Why do you keep trying to talk to her about her sexuality in the first place?

My thoughts too. I did it talk to my son at 13 about his sexuality. Infact at 20 I’m not sure what his sexuality is but it’s not my business. I dont go around announcing I’m hetro.

Iliveonahill · 22/10/2022 08:05

Didn’t talk

Faffertea · 22/10/2022 08:11

@Ekátn
Thank you for sharing your experience. I thought that was a very insightful post and hopefully be of help to the OP.

I also wonder if @rogdmum has seen this as she has first hand experience of this and her advice on it is invaluable.
(And I hope she doesn’t mind me tagging her)

Flapjack637 · 22/10/2022 08:19

Asdavaluesausage · 22/10/2022 05:31

I’m not being nasty but why the hell are you letting a 13 year old use deviant art? The clue us in the name. It’s not a nice jolly gallery of stuff suitable for kids. A lot of it is really really nasty stuff.. The first thing I would do is block that.

Absolutely this. Have you actually been on the site OP?
Limit internet access.

OkPedro · 23/10/2022 00:35

Thanks to those who replied. I'm embarrassed because I started this thread after a few wines 🤭

I have talked to my daughter about her sexuality 3 times since she told me she is gay.. I am not pushy at all. I am not focused on her sexuality. However I am not naive to think she won't face lesphobia.. and then we have gender ideology.. if she was hetrosexual I wouldn't be as worried because straight women and girls aren't being targeted.
Whoever mentioned not knowing their son's sexuality.. that's because he is hetrosexual, if he was gay (a small percentage of the population) it's a big deal. Homophobic and isolation being two big things

OP posts:
Ekátn · 23/10/2022 05:19

Of course lesphobia is a thing. But it’s a very heavy topic for a girl who is finding her way and you can’t jump straight into that. That could easily be interpreted as trying to scare her straight. They are conversations that need to be had. But you can’t do it in isolation and letting her lead on it is far more productive.
unfortunately it isn’t just gay girls and women that are targeted, regarding gender. Not sure where you have got that from.

PriOn1 · 23/10/2022 05:44

Whoever mentioned not knowing their son's sexuality.. that's because he is hetrosexual, if he was gay (a small percentage of the population) it's a big deal. Homophobic and isolation being two big things

I think you are jumping to conclusions here. My lesbian daughter didn’t talk to me about her sexuality until she was twenty or twenty one. I think she stayed quiet until she was actually interested in dating someone, which was relatively late.

I had made it clear to all my children that whoever they (eventually) brought home, it would be fine with me, but I took my cue from her regarding when she wanted to discuss it. She’s now a happily out, well grounded, butch lesbian, but I didn’t know it for certain until really quite late.

GeriSignfeld · 23/10/2022 06:21

Honestly if you can afford it I would take her overseas for a year

A complete change of culture & adventure for you both

Iliveonahill · 23/10/2022 08:57

PriOn1 · 23/10/2022 05:44

Whoever mentioned not knowing their son's sexuality.. that's because he is hetrosexual, if he was gay (a small percentage of the population) it's a big deal. Homophobic and isolation being two big things

I think you are jumping to conclusions here. My lesbian daughter didn’t talk to me about her sexuality until she was twenty or twenty one. I think she stayed quiet until she was actually interested in dating someone, which was relatively late.

I had made it clear to all my children that whoever they (eventually) brought home, it would be fine with me, but I took my cue from her regarding when she wanted to discuss it. She’s now a happily out, well grounded, butch lesbian, but I didn’t know it for certain until really quite late.

Exactly. My 20 year old has not dated anyone yet. He will when he is ready and if he wants too. I’ll be happy for him whatever he does. But I don’t think it’s right to discuss it with him. That’s his business. I’m just there for him if he did want to talk to me. I can’t think of anything worse than a parent talking to Me at 13 about my sexual feelings.

Girlsontour · 23/10/2022 17:46

Deviant Art is a well known direct entryway to Gender Ideology, letting her have free access to the internet at 13 is extremely naive. You are letting your daughter be brainwashed.

Notanotherusernamenow · 23/10/2022 18:02

Deviant art is also a fetish site. I use it for my own adult enjoyment. I would hate to think there are 13 yros on it. I only consume media there, but it’s creative pornography (think dirty stories, cartoon narratives). It’s very explicit and I enjoy it because it gives sexual thrill without the exploitation (it’s all drawn / written) but in NO WAY should a teen be reading / looking at it.

EdgeOfACoin · 23/10/2022 20:12
  1. She's 13.
  1. Why the hell are you letting her use an app called 'Deviant Art'???
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