Public Consultation - Interim Service Spec for Specialist Gender Dysphoria Services for Children/Young People

[rogdmum]

This is what was leaked by Reuters last week and is now live:

www.engage.england.nhs.uk/specialised-commissioning/gender-dysphoria-services/

There’s a fair chunk on social transition on pages 15/16:

”Not all adolescents will want or benefit from social transition. The provision of approaches to support social transition may be considered in cases where:
• Gender dysphoria has been diagnosed, is consistent and persistent; AND
• Associated needs and risks have been considered and are being addressed
or supported; AND
• The young person expresses a clear wish to affirm their gender transition and fully understands the implications of affirming a social transition (informed consent); AND
• The proposed clinical approach is necessary for the alleviation, or prevention of, clinically significant distress or impairment in social functioning in the individual.

In these cases the clinical approach will involve a focus on exploring or supporting (as appropriate to the individual) social transition through psychological support and interventions, family work/therapy and guidance for the local professional network”

And what Reuters reported on accessing prescriptions from online/unregulated providers is included (page 16)

”Prescribing from unregulated sources and unregulated providers
Children, young people and their families are strongly discouraged from sourcing GnRHa and masculinising / feminising hormone drugs from unregulated sources or from on-line providers that are not regulated by UK regulatory bodies. In such cases The Service will make the child or young person and their family aware of the risks, contraindications and any irreversible or partly reversible effects of the drugs and will advise the GP to initiate local safeguarding protocols.”

God Maugham is such an irresponsible insufferable man.

Some terms aren't defined. And in the impact assessment they need to reconsider the impact on gay young ppl if they get this wrong. There is some evidence that same sex attracted ppl are over represented in this cohort co.paref to the general population so that is a group who could be impacted.

The starting point of psychlogical help not medical intervention is sensible. Caution about social transition is good. If a child's already socially transitioned it says they will be non judgemental and watchful. That might be the right approach but will it leave the therapist feeling like they daren't take the exploration to anywhere that could lead the child to change their mind about that in case they are accused of conversion? Will it fence off whole areas of exploratory therapy?

It's very different from they way this was talked about when I first started looking into this in 2018. Then it seemed like a weird and ideological enclave of medicine where the normal medical approaches and standards didn't enter the room. This document is written mostly in straight forward clinical language and they are trying to embed the service in normal paediatric care which is good.

The outrage from mermaids & co suggests they feel like they are on the outside screeching about it & have lost their ability to set the agenda or indluence it. That in itself is a good sign of change. But I imagine they with drum up lots of critical responses, so it's not a done deal yet.

Gendered Intelligence have responded. Social transitioning is beneficial AND harmless AND reversible, and this area should be led by patients, they say:

"There is also a perverse, completely needless pathologisation of social transition. Social transition includes changing names and pronouns, or the way a person presents themselves. Not only is it both harmless and reversible, it actually benefits young people to be able to safely explore their identities in this way."

And:

"the proposed specification seems to discourage doctors from a patient-led response, instead suggesting they put up further unnecessary barriers to social transition. All patients deserve to be able to present themselves as they wish, and to have safe, outcome-neutral discussions about their identities. Arbitrarily restricting personal choices like name and gender presentation isn’t just harmful and unenforceable in practice, it runs uncomfortably close to conversion practices. That this is even being considered by NHS England is dangerous."

genderedintelligence.co.uk/latest/servicespecs-211022.html

twitter.com/genderintell/status/1583489774500782080?s=46&t=I_Q8DNlWS74Onoj7rTjWBQ

Learnt a new word from that Twitter thread cishetropatriarchy! Lots of please for trans led care. What does that even mean? Does it mean no doctors? Or that the doctors have to be trans? And yes I am totally against children being taken for private care particularly abroad.

I'm all for children wearing what they want, having their hair how they like (as in the 1980s) but they should not be labelled trans, that is social transition. Let kids explore their whole identity.

I've not looked at it yet but thanks for the heads up on the use of gender identity.

I've also shared with the local women I meet. We will have a discussion on this and each make a response.

Social transition includes changing names and pronouns, or the way a person presents themselves.

So a stereotypical opposite sex name, presentation which is stereotypical of the opposite sex and a demand from others to use opposite sex pronouns when the person isn't there.

All patients deserve to be able to present themselves as they wish, and to have safe, outcome-neutral discussions about their identities. Arbitrarily restricting personal choices like name and gender presentation isn’t just harmful and unenforceable in practice, it runs uncomfortably close to conversion practices.

Has anyone actually suggested that people who identify as transgender should be restricted in their style of dress or choice of name? Why do they call this 'gender presentation'? I thought being transgender was nothing to do with gender stereotypes (although without the stereotypes, what does 'transgender' mean?)

i am aware of a 'mummy blogger' who has a 'trans child' and seems to have fully (not only socially but very publicly) transitioned their very young child and I find it incredibly disturbing that no professional has stepped in and raised considerations such as these.

If it's the same one I am thinking of they're also doing a PhD and publishing various papers about trans children in schools.

Also v in with Webberly.

It's good to see all these organisations showing themselves up. Not just Mermaids.

twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1583514952190816258?s=21&t=-jvG2dFsm3zpp8HiTd42iQ

Sonia has written a thread on the consultation.

How can they possibly 'analyse' anything? They haven't even read the fucking Cass Report! Healthcare is outwith their remit! They have no fucking idea, they said so themselves.

Is this related to the Tavistock closing?

TRANS LED HEALTHCARE IS THIS BEAUTIFUL VISION:

edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

Mail coverage, quite long:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11341001/NHS-discourage-social-transitioning-gender-questioning-children.html

Incidentally, they also covered this today, so it's possible that matters relating to this topic might get coverage this weekend. Possible, though maybe a low possibility:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11338631/MPs-warn-colleagues-avoid-backing-Penny-Mordaunts-leadership-bid-view-trans-issues.html

Incidentally, they also covered this today, so it's possible that matters relating to this topic might get coverage this weekend. Possible, though maybe a low possibility:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11338631/MPs-warn-colleagues-avoid-backing-Penny-Mordaunts-leadership-bid-view-trans-issues.html

I feel like it's Groundhog Day!

I don't think they're the same then. This one home educates! But lots of rants on posts and stories at the moment about all the haters getting at Mermaids and "trans children".

I know it's been said so many times on here but even if you believe there is such a thing as a "trans child" and that yours is one, why wouldn't that make you fight for them to receive evidence based care and demand rigorous safeguarding from the organisations engaging with them?

The Daily Mail article has lost the plot with its assertions re clothes. Hopefully GIDS won’t be discouraging children/adolescents from wearing what they want (or hairstyle etc).

I get it about letting kids wear what they want but I'm not happy about "gender neutral" uniforms ie boys wearing skirts. We can't all just do what we like all the time. I can't wear what I'd like to work because slippers, joggers and an old t-shirt are not professional.

The push for some of things things seems to be from adults. Why? What do they gain from having children subvert social conventions?

I can't see any definition of 'gender identity' in those documents. We really need a definition of this.

Coincidentally, I have spoken to my MP this morning about gender identity in relation to the statutory guidance on RSE. She didn’t know what the “facts and law” about gender identity were either, so is writing to the minister responsible to ask for something impartial and substantial (akin to a subject specification) that schools can rely on. I will update with the minister’s response (if I get one).

This document does seem much better than anything we’ve seen before. Not perfect, but sufficient to drastically reduce the amount of irreversible medical treatment of children. I’m particularly pleased to note that children who are taking drugs they’ve got online are recognised as needing safeguarding intervention. I mean, it’s pretty bloody obvious that a child (or their parents) buying medication online to circumvent UK rules is at risk of harm, but at least that is finally being publicly acknowledged.

Part of Mermaids wrath will probably be because they will now need to shut down all the merry recommending of GenderGP by parents in the Parents Forum and adolescents in the Youth Forum. What a shame.

The push for some of things things seems to be from adults. Why? What do they gain from having children subvert social conventions?

It helps the adult males with that condition that we're not allowed to mention. It helps their argument that it's not a fetish because children have the same condition, and their motives are obviously not sexual.

I’m particularly pleased to note that children who are taking drugs they’ve got online are recognised as needing safeguarding intervention.

The fox killer interprets this as children who are too poor to afford the Webberleys will be taken into care.

The NHS can't or won't treat young people with gender dysphoria. The wealthy can pay for private care abroad. Those who can't afford that will be taken into care.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1583364606755753984?cxt=HHwWgMDS-ZDunvkrAAAA

It's an absolutely stinking thread - she gives blistering comment on 🦊

Good to see Sonia calling out Gendered Intelligence - that group of adults determined to transition other people's children via schools and any other way they can find to access children.

You are right on point to bring this to our attention there.

You are truly a real feminist to remind us of this travesty at this time.

Can they monger up any more fear?

Fuck! What a thing to put out there where children and young people can see it to make them feel even more vulnerable and persecuted!

Hardly they would be taken into care unless they were being genuinely abused. Having parents that don’t immediately affirm is not yet a reason to have a child taken into care in the UK. And it requires much more work than ‘children who cannot afford the Gender GP subscription!

what a thing to spread.

It's really irresponsible.

'Gendered Intelligence ... says this evidence-informed approach “runs uncomfortably close to conversion practices.” This does rather raise questions about [Labour's] support for a gender identity conversion therapy ban which many believe risks actually making this approach outlined by the NHS unlawful. These concerns are shared by [EHRC]'

• from Sonia Sodha's thread.