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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cambridge University LGBTQI+ students: we are not attempting to silence free speech, we just want to deplatform Helen Joyce

211 replies

snurtifier · 18/10/2022 10:11

Helen Joyce has been invited to talk at Gonville & Caius College next week. This has provoked the usual outbreak of virtue signalling and the following response from "college LGBTQI+ officers". It is pretty much the full bingo card. Warning: contains complex mental gymnastics.

Dear all,
It has come to our attention that Gonville and Caius college, and the Divinity faculty, are hosting a speaker event on the 25th of October platforming Helen Joyce. This event has also been promoted by the Fac Bio to natural sciences, medic and vet med students. The title of the event is ‘Criticising gender-identity ideology: what happens when speech is silenced.’
Helen Joyce is a ‘gender critical’ activist, whose work largely focuses around anti-trans rhetoric and trans-exclusionary radical feminism. “Gender identity ideology” is frequently used as a dog-whistle for transphobic sentiment, cloaked in the language of free speech and scientific inquiry. It goes without saying that this kind of rhetoric is fundamentally against what we as LGBT officers stand for, and we are unanimously disgusted by the platforming of such views by Caius and the promotion of the event by the various faculties. Transgender identities should not be put forward as a subject for debate, and their existence is not an “ideology.”

Colleges, and the wider university, have a duty of care to their students, no matter their gender identity. By inviting speakers with inflammatory and bigoted views to speak, the staff involved are allowing transphobia to proliferate within the university, lending it a level of credibility, and crucially, potentially putting transgender students in harms’ way. Transgender people are an at-risk minority group – according to the Stonewall School Report 2017:
92% of trans young people have thought about taking their own life;
84% of trans young people have self-harmed; and

45% of trans young people have tried to take their own life.

Further to this, just days before the event was announced, the Home Office published the past years’ statistics on hate crimes in the UK, which revealed that transphobic hate crime has increased by 56% from last year, with 4,355 reports being made in England and Wales. In light of these statistics, the platforming of a speaker with these transphobic views takes on a particularly alarming salience.

Freedom of speech, of course, is protected in law; Helen Joyce has the right to speak as she pleases. The core of the issue we take is with the senior staff and fellows who have chosen to platform this speaker, which we consider a violation of their duty of care. To invite a speaker whose publicly expressed views include advocating “reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition” both legitimises active transphobia and also alienates and hurts transgender individuals on a personal and emotional level. Furthermore, the fact that this has been promoted to medical students, who will inevitably treat transgender patients in their future careers, presents a further risk to trans individuals not just in the university, but in the wider community, with the potential for wide-reaching and long-lasting harm.

This is not an attempt to silence free speech, but rather, us exercising our own right to that speech in the face of an event which is, in our view, not only irresponsible but actively harmful and cruel to the transgender students at Cambridge. Trans people deserve a university experience as comfortable, safe, and joyful as everyone else, and the University should take an active role in ensuring that – a role that they have, on this occasion, failed to fulfil. It is for these reasons that we implore Gonville and Caius to reconsider their decision to platform Joyce.
If any individual feels unsafe, upset or troubled by this event, please talk to someone – your college LGBT officer, an SU representative, a college or university counsellor, or a charity helpline. We have attached some resources at the end of this letter.
With love and solidarity,
The college LGBT officers

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 18/10/2022 11:14

And these people are supposed to be the creme de la fucking creme.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/10/2022 11:15

Trans people deserve a university experience as comfortable, safe, and joyful

my university felt no compunction to make me comfortable or joyful

nor did they feel the need to shield me from ideas and opinions that may have troubled me

a quote from the philosophy lecturer who set this up in the Varsity article:

“Anyone who would like to learn about Helen Joyce’s views and her reasoning, and to discuss them with her, should feel free to come along. Everyone is welcome.”

well, quite

TheClogLady · 18/10/2022 11:22

“Gender identity ideology” is frequently used as a dog-whistle for transphobic sentiment, cloaked in the language of free speech and scientific inquiry. It goes without saying that this kind of rhetoric is fundamentally against what we as LGBT officers stand for,

Well, yes, Free Speech and Scientific Enquiry is indeed ‘against what LGBT officers stand for’ nowadays.

Probably time for us all to rethink giving LGBT officers influence over academic departments, then eh?

Baldieheid · 18/10/2022 11:23

These kids want to be so protected from the world, its quite alarming imagining how they'll behave in the real world of work. Are we going to have bank managers whining that they don't feel safe cos someone got their pronouns wrong? Surgeons wearing fake breasts in theatre? News presenters refusing to read the actual news as it doesn't fit their life narrative?

TheClogLady · 18/10/2022 11:25

I’m starting to think Universities need to divide their Humanities and Arts and STEM into two completely separate institutions.

PoMo bollocks needs to be effectively quarantined before ‘lived experience’ completely consumes the scientific method.

endofthelinefinally · 18/10/2022 11:32

What on earth is the point of a university that does not allow the expression of varying views and experiences and free debate of same? We need graduates to be well informed and able to construct well researched arguments.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 18/10/2022 11:36

Catabogus · 18/10/2022 10:56

Is anyone here going to the talk? I am planning to

So am I

Justme56 · 18/10/2022 11:36

Considering the title is ‘what happens when free speech is silenced’ they are only proving the point. Universities should be places where free and open discussion takes place. People may not always like the opinions of others and if that’s the case they should come up with valid counter arguments instead of throwing around accusations. I am very much of the belief that there are some PhD students who stay in education because they can’t face the reality of life outside.

hallouminatus · 18/10/2022 11:41

Transgender identities should not be put forward as a subject for debate

What other topics should not be debated? Is there a list? Who decides which subjects should not be discussed?

WhiteFire · 18/10/2022 11:44

senua · 18/10/2022 10:41

Transgender identities should not be put forward as a subject for debate, and their existence is not an “ideology.”
Are we back to 'no debate'. How old skool.

Could you imagine The Christian Union writing such letter because the Atheist Society were having a talk titled "There is no God" ? And if they did they would quickly be put back in their place.

Yet, this is actively encouraged.

WhiteFire · 18/10/2022 11:47

X-posted there.

Brefugee · 18/10/2022 11:50

They are at Cambridge. Surely they are a bit intelligent? If their arguments against what Helen Joyce is likely to say are logical and coherent, they will be able to debate her and make her ideas look wrong?
Or aren't they able to do that?

She isn't standing up and proposing a T4 type "solution to the trans problem" afaik, so what are they afraid of? Robust debate? This is where "prizes for all" and "anti-authoritarian" parenting has brought us: todays students are incapable of formulating and articulating logical and rational arguments. They should all be ex-matriculated for that and their places given to people who can.

snurtifier · 18/10/2022 11:57

This year marks the thirtieth anniversary of the Derrida Affair. In 1992 Jacques Derrida was nominated to receive an honorary degree at Cambridge. The nomination was opposed by a number of academics. Barry Smith wrote a celebrated letter to the Times portraying Derrida as a charlatan whose works had no traction within philosophy, only within cultural studies and so forth. Interviewed about the affair in 1997, he said of Derrida: "if you eliminate truth and reason - if you eliminate argument - then naked power is going to be the only thing left over as the means by which decisions can be made in society."

It feels a bit like Derrida has triumphed from beyond the grave. And these students are doing their best to prove Smith right.

OP posts:
ChlorineChris · 18/10/2022 11:57

One thing (among very many) that I just cannot understand is the TRA/other side obsession with quoting, quite frankly, unbelievable suicide statistics as some sort of proof or definitive point.

At the same time as insisting that being trans is something that should be dealt with solely in the medical arena, and refuting all suggestions that improved psychological support, counselling and exploration of mental health needs could be more what is needed for this group of people.

Suicidality is a measure of mental health distress. It is not definitive proof that everyone around you has to do, and say all the right things, deny their own reality, wants and needs and give your opinion more weight over and above everyone else's.

In less kind and enlightened times, constantly impressing upon others the severity of your mental health issues would be a sure fire way of people going out of their way to dismiss you and give your opinion less weight. Luckily, we have moved on and recognise that mental I'll health does not reduce your personhood, but I'm not sure that it increases the level of importance everyone else should give to your view either.

LolaO · 18/10/2022 12:00

Few points:

(A) Varsity is just a student rag - it doesn’t have actual sway over policy or decision making
(B) Cambridge has always had speakers some deem controversial. That is a good thing. Might be worth someone pointing that out… some might consider Helen Joyce “controversial” (I don’t, especially, and would be interested in attending that talk if I were still there) but certainly doesn’t merit this sort of response. I would point out that when I was at Cambridge col. Gaddafi spoke at the union. A literal dictator, who had been involved in HR abuses and deaths. There was a small peaceful protest, but he was able to speak…

lady69 · 18/10/2022 12:10

EmmaGrundyForPM · 18/10/2022 11:36

So am I

I am interested in attending. When is it and where do i go for tickets?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 18/10/2022 12:12

This is what happens when adults have been allowed to convince children that their poor mental health and any suicidal thoughts is somehow proof of their transness and that they are in constant peril from anyone who could burst their protective bubble.
They are the perpetually emotionally and mentally fragile.

They think perfectly ordinary women who understand biological reality are like some crazy Scooby Doo villains.

Andante57 · 18/10/2022 12:15

I think those objecting just enjoy seeing the university authorities caving in and grovelling.

dropthevipers · 18/10/2022 12:19

Can these people be told simply to fuck off, and stay fucked off?

FernPotts · 18/10/2022 12:24

This is what happens when adults have been allowed to convince children that their poor mental health and any suicidal thoughts is somehow proof of their transness

Or the transness was a response to poor mental health caused by a traumatic situation, not the other way round. That looks very likely for the young girls I know.

pepperaunt · 18/10/2022 12:28

Not DD’s college but one of them is her subject. I’d love to think that she would attend, listen, and ponder but, alas, she is fully one of the “Be Kind” brigade

Helleofabore · 18/10/2022 12:33

Brefugee · 18/10/2022 11:50

They are at Cambridge. Surely they are a bit intelligent? If their arguments against what Helen Joyce is likely to say are logical and coherent, they will be able to debate her and make her ideas look wrong?
Or aren't they able to do that?

She isn't standing up and proposing a T4 type "solution to the trans problem" afaik, so what are they afraid of? Robust debate? This is where "prizes for all" and "anti-authoritarian" parenting has brought us: todays students are incapable of formulating and articulating logical and rational arguments. They should all be ex-matriculated for that and their places given to people who can.

I was about to post the same.

This is really concerning that one of the supposed leading universities in the world cannot host a speaker and then debate that speaker if they don't agree with the speaker's points.

beastlyslumber · 18/10/2022 12:37

They are so fragile it does mu head in. I just got permabanned from a reddit sub for gently defending JKR. (Third sub I've been banned from!) All I did was ask what she said that was transphobic! I got called some horrible names and then they deleted their accounts. I felt bad for how upset they were. They clearly could not handle having their views questioned. We have somehow manage to raise a generation of young people who are so privileged, entitled and ignorant that they think someone disagreeing with them makes them unsafe. I feel bad for them but it's pathetic.

Helleofabore · 18/10/2022 12:37

LolaO · 18/10/2022 12:00

Few points:

(A) Varsity is just a student rag - it doesn’t have actual sway over policy or decision making
(B) Cambridge has always had speakers some deem controversial. That is a good thing. Might be worth someone pointing that out… some might consider Helen Joyce “controversial” (I don’t, especially, and would be interested in attending that talk if I were still there) but certainly doesn’t merit this sort of response. I would point out that when I was at Cambridge col. Gaddafi spoke at the union. A literal dictator, who had been involved in HR abuses and deaths. There was a small peaceful protest, but he was able to speak…

Yes. And those attending his event may or may not have agreed with anything that he said. Attending the event should be viewed with gaining a better perspective about that person or that topic. Even listening to the most abhorrent person can mean that a future policy/decision maker has a great insight and what to look for and how best to protect people.

Catabogus · 18/10/2022 12:39

lady69 · 18/10/2022 12:10

I am interested in attending. When is it and where do i go for tickets?

It’s not ticketed, I don’t think. It’s at 7pm at Gonville & Caius (Bateman Auditorium) on 25th October

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