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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daily Mail 12 / 10 / 22 - Major feature about new Detranistioners documentary " No Turning Back ".

34 replies

BrokenFridgeDrawer · 12/10/2022 16:45

A major news story in the Daily Mail to publicise a new film about detransitioners " No Turning Back ". After investigating, it appears it is on a Streaming site with major links to David Icke.

Nevertheless, that should not discount it. ( And he and Popbitch were putting information about Saville out there whilst he was still alive .... )

It's all sunlight, and turning the screw on a certain child transing " charity "

Article:

I should have never done this': Transgender patients reveal their regret over NHS sex change operations and why they 'detransitioned' after they were 'rushed' into life-changing procedures

EXCLUSIVE: Ritchie and Amber tell film they both regret their treatment and claim they were rushed into it

Brave testimony will revive fears young people are being pushed into invasive and unalterable procedures

Ritchie said: 'This is not reversible, the experiment is over for me, there really really isn't any turning back'

By RORY TINGLE, HOME AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 14:30, 12 October 2022 | UPDATED: 15:48, 12 October 2022
e-mail

Two transgender patients today revealed their regret at going through NHS sex change operations and claimed they were 'rushed' into the life-changing procedures.

In powerful testimony that will raise fresh fears that vulnerable young people are being pushed into invasive and unalterable surgery by zealous transgender activists, they spoke of the terrible impacts on their mental and physical health.

After describing in graphic detail the nature of the surgery required to remove his male anatomy, 35-year-old Ritchie said: 'This is not reversible, the experiment is over for me, there really really isn't any turning back.'

Meanwhile, Amber - who had a mastectomy and took testosterone to transition from female to male - described the pain and health difficulties she had experienced since being 'rushed' into surgery, and said she wished she had been given therapy instead.

Their brave testimony in No Turning Back, a new film from Branded Film Studios that can be viewed in full on media platform Ickonic, is a rare example of 'detransitioners' coming forward to reveal their regrets.

'When Mermaids and Stonewall always talk about the people who don't get the chance to transition, they don't talk about the people who regret the process of transitioning,' filmmaker Charlotte Fantelli told MailOnline - referring to two charities who have faced scrutiny for their stance on transgender issues.

In powerful testimony to the film No Turning Back, Ritchie (left) and Amber (right) bravely reveal their regrets at going through sex change operations

Ritchie, a civil servant from the north of England, detransitioned after spending nearly a decade as a trans woman.
After feeling 'different' as a young boy, he discovered gender dysphoria while browsing online forums in his early 20s. When he explained his feelings to other forum users he was told he was '100 per cent trans and should act on it'.

In March 2014, Ritchie drove to a private clinic in Scotland where after just three appointments in two days he obtained a diagnosis which would allow him to be prescribed cross sex hormones on the NHS. He then went to an NHS gender clinic in Brighton.

'The first question I was asked when I saw the psychiatrist was whether I wanted gender reassignment surgery,' he recalled on the film. 'I said to her, ''I'm not sure, I'd like some time and I heard you could have therapy''.

'But I felt they communicated to me that they weren't a mental health service, they were there to help people medically transition. They wanted me to have surgery more than I wanted to have surgery - it was really bizarre.
'I refused it in 2015, I refused it in 2016, then in 2017 the psychiatrist said to me ''you're established on your hormones, if you don't want surgery we'll discharge you''. 'But I was in the middle of that critical therapy, which was the anchor I needed in the world to keep me well. Then they told me I'd be discharged if I didn't go on this list.'

Ritchie described the surgery he went through to transition from male to female as 'extremely brutal'. 'The first thing they do is they give you what's called an orchidectomy to remove your testicles,' he said. 'Once they've done that they essentially shave the skin off the penis for that to be removed, and then they start removing the erectile tissue.

'If you imagine your knuckle losing your finger, you still have the knuckle - you can still twinge it, so unfortunately you still have that phantom sensation. What they also do is reangle the urethra, which causes a very common complication called urethral constriction.

'That's when you can't pass urine properly. It will either come up slowly, painfully, or in some cases not at all. Some people have got catheters for the rest of their lives. Some have got really horrific complications.
'And for me I lost a lot of blood in surgery because they drill right through your pelvis. The infections that you get after are just treated like it's a normal thing. They were like, ''you just get infections''.'

Ritchie said he struggled mentally after surgery: 'Even if you're happy with it, it's tough. You lose energy, you become extremely fatigued and vulnerable in a way because you recognise you don't have that power in a sense - it's a very strange feeling.

'I was still involved in therapy at the gender clinic and I said ''I think I've f*d up here, I think I've made a really mad decision''. And their response was, ''You've just had this really major surgery... this is a rumination, this is just your OCD''.
'So I would go back every month and at every session say I feel the same, ''This is f
**g mental, I should have never done this''.'

After feeling 'different' as a young boy, he discovered gender dysphoria while browsing online forums in his early 20s. When he explained his feelings to other forum users he was told he was '100 per cent trans and should act on it'.

After feeling 'different' as a young boy, Richie discovered gender dysphoria while browsing online forums in his early 20s. When he explained his feelings to other forum users he was told he was '100 per cent trans and should act on it'
After describing in graphic detail the nature of the surgery required to remove his male anatomy, 35-year-old said: 'This is not reversible, the experiment is over for me, there really really isn't any turning back'

After describing in graphic detail the nature of the surgery required to remove his male anatomy, 35-year-old said: 'This is not reversible, the experiment is over for me, there really really isn't any turning back'
Ritchie, who has since retransitioned to a man, added: 'This is not reversible, the experiment is over for me, there really really isn't any turning back.'
Amber - who is in her early 30s, works in recruitment and lives in the north west of England with her wife - also bravely came forward to give her testimony to No Turning Back.

She also first went to a private gender clinic, where after just two appointments she was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and received cross sex hormones. She then had surgery to remove her breasts on the NHS.

After three years on testosterone she said she began to question her decision but found the medics at her private clinic were not supportive.
She told the film: 'It didn't stem from a questioning of my identity at the time - what happened was I started to experience a phenomena that does happen to a lot of people who have a transition that's transmasculine where the testosterone therapy causes issues for their internal bodily functions, from a female lens.

'So, my female reproductive organs started to have some issues. I haven't had any menstrual experiences since the onset of testosterone and at the point where I got to about two and a half years on testosterone I started to experience a lot of severe pain in my genital region.

'I think I regret the speed at which I approached transition, especially the medical side. I don't think seeking diagnosis was necessarily an issue and I did experience gender dysphoria. But the rush to have surgical intervention and to have hormones is definitely something I wish I had taken more time over.

'I wish I'd have explored in therapy the feelings I was having. So, even if I had taken those medical steps I'd at least have laid some groundwork to know I might not regret them and I might feel more confident rather than rushing in as if it would solve all of my problems.'
Amber had a double mastectomy as part of the process of transitioning. She said: '[My breasts] were what was causing the predominant bulk of my dysphoria in the beginning and I do still have mixed feelings on my flat chest'

Amber had a double mastectomy as part of the process of transitioning. She said: '[My breasts] were what was causing the predominant bulk of my dysphoria in the beginning and I do still have mixed feelings on my flat chest'

Taking testosterone for a long period had caused problems with Amber's internal female organs. Amber said the usual pathway at this point would have been full hysterectomy but she refused and came off the testosterone

Taking testosterone for a long period had caused problems with Amber's internal female organs. Amber said the usual pathway at this point would have been full hysterectomy but she refused and came off the testosterone
Describing the 'permanent effects' of having taken male sex hormones, Amber said: 'I have facial and bodily hair - female hormones don't remove the hair that we've grown on testosterone. I also have genital changes that are permanent and of course I had a double mastectomy.

'[My breasts] were what was causing the predominant bulk of my dysphoria in the beginning and I do still have mixed feelings on my flat chest - whether I in some ways appreciate the neutrality it gives me and I feel I'm less sexualised...
'By trying to avoid what was difficult about going through this surgery in some ways I have denied myself of the opportunity to embrace my womanhood fully.'
Taking testosterone for a long period had caused her internal female organs to begin to atrophy. Amber said the usual pathway at this point would have been full hysterectomy but she refused and came off the testosterone.

Filmmaker Charlotte Fantelli told MailOnline she had never covered transgender issues before but decided to following her own personal experiences.

'When I was growing up I had a few trials and tribulations when I felt the adults around me didn't protect me,' she said.

'I've always had a passion for helping children and have been interested in mental health and have been published on the curriculum about topics to do with mental health for children.

'My children were aged 11 or 12 when they came home after a sex education session in which they'd talked about transgender ideology and how they could potentially have been born into the wrong body. I questioned why a group of pre-pubescent teenagers would be taught that kind of ideology.'
Amber (pictured after her double mastectomy) told the film: 'By trying to avoid what was difficult about going through this surgery in some ways I have denied myself of the opportunity to embrace my womanhood fully'

Amber (pictured after her double mastectomy) told the film: 'By trying to avoid what was difficult about going through this surgery in some ways I have denied myself of the opportunity to embrace my womanhood fully'

Ms Fantelli said she had always been 'very openly liberal', but felt children 'were being given answers to questions that they had never asked'.

She added: 'Children should be allowed to explore their own identities in an innocent way, but what I thought was wrong was adults starting to label children at a very vulnerable place in their life and put seeds in their minds that came from a very adult, sexualised and gender orientated place.

'What anyone wants to choose as an adult is absolutely up to them. My issue is that if you are presenting with mental health problems you should start by receiving therapy rather than be pushed down a medical pathway.'
The film is set to be released amid an ongoing controversy over the charity Mermaids, which is currently being investigated by the Charity Commission following revelations that one of its staff had agreed to send a breast binder to an undercover journalist posing as a teenage girl.

Mermaids has attracted additional scrutiny for weeks following its legal attempt to remove the charity status of the LGB Alliance - a charity set up to uphold gay, lesbian and bisexual rights.

Mermaids has insisted it is the victim of a 'smear campaign' and claims it has been forced to close its contact centre after being bombarded with abuse.

LINK TO ARTICLE AND COMMENBTS

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11302085/Patients-detransitioned-sex-change-operations-reveal-regret.html

OP posts:
BrokenFridgeDrawer · 12/10/2022 16:47

Linki to trailer:

davidicke.com/2022/09/22/no-turning-back-official-trailer-ickonic-original-film/

OP posts:
BrokenFridgeDrawer · 12/10/2022 16:54

Link to the streaming site. Says 7 Day Trial

www.ickonic.com/

Link to filmmakers website.

www.charlottefantelli.co.uk/

OP posts:
nauticant · 12/10/2022 16:56

Another source for the trailer:

StillWeRise · 12/10/2022 17:14

However good this film is I think that a combination of David Icke and the Daily Mail will be the kiss of death to many potential viewers.

beastlyslumber · 12/10/2022 17:47

Looks great. Hopefully it gets a massive audience.

Needmoresleep · 12/10/2022 17:54

However good this film is I think that a combination of David Icke and the Daily Mail will be the kiss of death to many potential viewers.

Isn’t that part of the problem. People picking their news source in a tribal manner. “If it’s in the Guardian it must be right, if it is the Mail it will be wrong/racist/phobic.”

What happened to critical thinking. Instead we have the demonising of anyone we disagree with and uncritical following of anyone who is on “our side”. It’s like a Fb thread started by a particularly daft friend of mine. “Did anyone have a friend who is a Tory?” Well, err, they are hardly going to tell you and burst your bubble. I know virtually nothing about David Icke and am quite willing to believe he is unpleasant. I am equally willing to believe that he is right on somethings, and detransitioners might well be one of those. I am assuming that he also has a take on how various US organisations were captured. I probably won’t agree, but again think his perspective might be interesting.

Thing is, those sitting in their Guardian sheltered cocoons will be struggling with the Mermaids stuff. They may decide it is all a plot, they may try to ignore it. What they should do is get out more, read stuff from different sources and form their own views.

Cat3i · 12/10/2022 17:59

davidicke.com/2022/01/03/alien-lizards-are-ruling-the-planet-according-to-thousands-of-millennials/
According to his own website Icke "claims that rulers – including American presidents and members of the Royal Family – are really “reptilian humanoids” who control and manipulate human societies for their own gain."
Clearly a terrific source of reliable information.

Clymene · 12/10/2022 18:02

David Icke is a nutter. Richie, who is featured in the film, is very real however.

ControversialOpening · 12/10/2022 18:15

rulers – including American presidents and members of the Royal Family – are really “reptilian humanoids” who control and manipulate human societies for their own gain

At one point I'd have thought that laughable, but Trump, Putin, Johnson, Berlusconi, Prince Andrew ... can you really say it's far off the mark?

VitaminX · 12/10/2022 18:21

ControversialOpening · 12/10/2022 18:15

rulers – including American presidents and members of the Royal Family – are really “reptilian humanoids” who control and manipulate human societies for their own gain

At one point I'd have thought that laughable, but Trump, Putin, Johnson, Berlusconi, Prince Andrew ... can you really say it's far off the mark?

Er.. yes.

Those people are definitely all humans, so I'd say it was quite wildly off the mark.

VitaminX · 12/10/2022 18:22

If you are joking, sorry for being dense!

ControversialOpening · 12/10/2022 18:30

@VitaminX

:)

ScaryFaces · 12/10/2022 18:35

Needmoresleep · 12/10/2022 17:54

However good this film is I think that a combination of David Icke and the Daily Mail will be the kiss of death to many potential viewers.

Isn’t that part of the problem. People picking their news source in a tribal manner. “If it’s in the Guardian it must be right, if it is the Mail it will be wrong/racist/phobic.”

What happened to critical thinking. Instead we have the demonising of anyone we disagree with and uncritical following of anyone who is on “our side”. It’s like a Fb thread started by a particularly daft friend of mine. “Did anyone have a friend who is a Tory?” Well, err, they are hardly going to tell you and burst your bubble. I know virtually nothing about David Icke and am quite willing to believe he is unpleasant. I am equally willing to believe that he is right on somethings, and detransitioners might well be one of those. I am assuming that he also has a take on how various US organisations were captured. I probably won’t agree, but again think his perspective might be interesting.

Thing is, those sitting in their Guardian sheltered cocoons will be struggling with the Mermaids stuff. They may decide it is all a plot, they may try to ignore it. What they should do is get out more, read stuff from different sources and form their own views.

David Icke believes the world is run by a secret cabal of paedophile reptiles aliens lizards. Concluding that content related to him is likely to be unreliable is a bit more than just "the wrong paper said it".

nauticant · 12/10/2022 18:39

Some people are confusing the platform (www.ickonic.com) on which the film is being streamed and the outfit responsible for making the film (www.brandedfilmstudios.com).

IvyTwines · 12/10/2022 18:40

This is what is so infuriating and exasperating and unforgivable. Where the hell have those mainstream media documentary makers, the centre or leftist journalists who used to have a nose for a story, been for the last 6 or more years?

IvyTwines · 12/10/2022 18:41

They are gifting this to the Right, to Icke, to Trump.

BrokenFridgeDrawer · 12/10/2022 19:12

Guys, could we please get back on track ?

Could we lose the Icke discussion for a moment ?

This looks like a very important important film. The trailer is showing some highly respected professionals.

Can you imagine the reaction and difficulties Charlotte Fantelli got when making her film, let alone trying to find crew, funding, a distributor for it, people to make posters or social media campaigns.. Can you imagine the blackballing and closed doors and canellations she must have experienced ? Can you imagine the mass schreech in, black pampers and bottle pissers that would have descenced on any companies involved in this.

There is now way she would have found a mainstream broadcaster or distributor for this.

So clearly, she has taken whatever channel she can to get her film out there. And hopefully, she will have other opportunites. But right now, after all her hard work this is all she has.

There is NO editorial or creative connection to David Icke. The only connection with David Icke is that this film is hosted on a website featuring films, which is connected to him.

She has independently made a film, and taken what I imagine is the only route open to her to get it seen, on a platform prepared to take it.

Let's watch it and forget that the platform has an Icke connection. it's irreleavant to the content.

I happen to have a relative in the industry, whose Twitter feed is pronounds and allyship. I don't know what happened to them. Whether they mean it, or whether they just have to go along with it like Nazi Germany.

In this climate the creator probably had a difficult time getting it out somewhere, fo for now, its there, but it is not to say that as the climate changes she will get other opportunities.

Lets watch the film and concentrate on that.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 12/10/2022 19:25

There is NO editorial or creative connection to David Icke

Well, good, but tbh the fact it's hosted on 'davidicke.com' sort of suggests that he's made it!

The film looks good. I hope it does well.

BrokenFridgeDrawer · 12/10/2022 20:15

I'm seeing uncensored, in depth interviews, with experts and highly respected commenators, with direct inside experience of this scandal, including :

David Bell
Former Staff Governor at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust
Former President of The British Psychoanalytical Society.
Wrote an internal report that was covered up and resigned and became a Tavistock Whistleblower

Marcus Evans
Ex Govenor of The Tavistock and Portman Trust, who after 35 years withing the instition resigned due to the activities of the clinic.

Paul Conrathe
Rep[resented Kiera Bell vs The Tavistock
Represented Rachel Ara vs Oxford Brookes University

Psychotherapist Stella O’Malley
Director of Genspect

James Esses
James Esses
barrister
Co-founder, Thoughtful Therapists.
Ex Childline

Heather Brunskell-Evan
Social theorist, philosopher, Foucault scholar and (retired) Senior Research Fellow at King’s College in London. She was previously a National Spokesperson for the Women’s Equality Party on Ending Sexual Violence, and a Trustee and Spokeswoman for FiLiA. She was co-founder of Resist Porn Culture. She is co-founder of the Women’s Human Rights Campaign (WHRC), created to lobby nations to maintain language protecting women and girls on the basis of sex rather than “gender” or “gender identity”.
Heather is co-author of the Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based Rights.-

I doubt any other platform would touch this film with a bargepole.

The Central London screening even had a secret location and only annoucned to ticket holders 24 hours before the premiere

We all know why ...

and people want to digress about David Icke and lizards.

OP posts:
Cat3i · 13/10/2022 08:00

If it’s such a high quality fact-packed doco bringing trans ideology bang up against human biology, how come the man they found to host their film is someone who can’t tell if people are mammals?

Beowulfa · 13/10/2022 08:20

FFS, we can't watch the Father Ted musical because the industry has decided it hates Graham Lineham for correctly stating that mammals cannot change sex. We don't have a normally functioning industry with a choice of sources/delivery methods. We have to take what we can get.

I'm sure it's possible to watch the film, check the references, and have a good snigger at the old Jasper Carrott joke about David Icke ("saving the world? He saved bugger all for Coventry City.")

Signalbox · 13/10/2022 08:50

I've seen some interviews with Ritchie and Benjamin Boyce. He is suing the NHS. The harm done to him is extreme and he was already struggling massively with his mental health and they went ahead with surgery regardless. So now he also has mental and physical health issues (probably for life). I hope he wins and I hope it costs the NHS a lot of money. They need to come to terms with the fact that what they are doing is harmful. Other than financial sanction, I'm not sure what else is going to shock them out of doing these extremely harmful and unnecessary surgeries.

RaininginDarling · 13/10/2022 09:02

I agree @Beowulfa - if most mainstream journalists* weren't actually asleep at the wheel and capable of doing their actual job, we wouldn't need to go to bizarro platforms to see a clearly credible doc on a global medical scandal - and, judging by the subjects involved, that's what it is.

*not all journalists

Signalbox · 13/10/2022 09:05

Cat3i · 13/10/2022 08:00

If it’s such a high quality fact-packed doco bringing trans ideology bang up against human biology, how come the man they found to host their film is someone who can’t tell if people are mammals?

This is happening all the time though isn't it? Women, on the political left, having no option but to write for conservative publications; Women, on the political left, only being hosted by conservative talk show hosts; Women having to set up their own crowd funders or to use crowd funders that are considered to be "right-wing"; Left-wing political parties treating GC women like shit. It should hardly be surprising when these women find other "alternative" ways of getting the message out there. Perhaps this is not an ideal platform but so what. People can watch the film and make their own minds up. If there is a load of biology denying nonsense in the film they can switch it off and give it no further thought.

zen1 · 13/10/2022 09:10

Do you have to subscribe to Icke’s website to watch it? It’s a shame the makers couldn’t have found another platform.

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