Link to piece on being treated less favourably if people realise you are female

[Hamserfan]

Apologies for the lengthy title!
Work in a healthcare setting, lots of female managers seem to be affixing pronouns to e-mail signatures at the mo. Wanted to point out to them that they may be disadvantaging themselves by pointing out that they are female. Although I may be being unfair, does anyone else remember Shirley Crabtree the wrestler AKA BigDaddy. Today’s “Shirley she/her” maybe concerned she could be confused with him 🙄

Not really I’ve met Shirley in person and it’s obvious she is indeed female

I think we work in same place as I noticed this today too

Work in a healthcare setting, lots of female managers seem to be affixing pronouns to e-mail signatures at the mo. Wanted to point out to them that they may be disadvantaging themselves by pointing out that they are female.

Unless you have a unisex name, everyone will have thought you were female and treated you accordingly anyway. The presence or absence of pronouns isn’t going to affect that imho. It’s not like all the women that worked there before you were treated equally because they had no pronouns on their emails?

oh, I thought you were asking for that journalistic piece where a man took over his coworkers email account while she was away and had his mind blown at how the same people treated her compared to him. Wish I could remember it as its very pertinent to the pronouns in emails I would have thought.

If anyone is interested, and possibly use it as a #nothankyou to pronouns
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4300564/Man-switches-names-female-coworker-week.html

If I recall the piece, it was more the personal psychological effect of being forced to put declare "by the way, I'm a woman" before doing something. It was some sort of psychological experiment, not something about the workplace, directly.

It increased women's existing tendency to be less assertive/confident than men in a mixed environment, or something.

Basically, if gender (ie social expectations based on sex) are a thing, then reminding someone of their sex reminds them of those expectations.

I think that's stereotype threat.

This is a good explainer:

gap.hks.harvard.edu/problems-pipeline-stereotype-threat-and-womens-achievement-high-level-math-courses

I think the OP might be thinking of this: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/what-happened-when-a-man-signed-work-emails-using-a-female-name-for-a-week_n_58c2ce53e4b054a0ea6a4066

Not the one I was thinking of but a useful illustration of the issue. Thanks

There’s something specific about seeing the pronouns and being explicitly reminded of the female-ness of the person you’re in contact with. It draws attention to it ostensibly in a way that isn’t there when your just interacting over another topic.

It's like they've just bolded and underlined the fact that they are female.
But if you point this out, if the kool-aid has been drunk, it will be called a trope and a dog whistle and dismissed without any explanation of why it doesn't count.

Not really. You’re reminded when you see their name at the top and bottom of an email. You’re reminded when you see them in person or on video chat. You’re reminded when you hear their voice. The absence or presence of a pronoun in an email signature is like one crumb of an already massive layer cake. It makes no difference at all.

Discovereads that’s not the case. I always signed emails as Dr B Babdoc, not Dr (female name) Babdoc. So it was not at all apparent I was female, and the default unconscious assumption for a doctor is probably male. Pronouns would blow that instantly, and lead to my email being regarded less favourably.

Lol. The Dr initial, surname or Dr surname tactic is well known to = female trying to hide they are female. You think you are being assumed male, but you’re not.

I mean, I thought the same thing and did the same thing when I got my PhD. But then a male colleague pointed out that no male Drs do this. I browsed through my work email directory and he was right. Every male PhD put his male name out there in all its glory. They didn’t use just their surname or the initial approach.

That may be your experience, but it wasn’t mine during a working lifetime in the NHS.
Perhaps we are more formal here in Scotland, but my male colleagues would have erupted if anyone tried to address them by first name. They signed all their discharge letters etc as Dr XYZ Bloggs. One of the surgeons tried to get a cheeky guy from the IT department disciplined for googling his Christian name and trying to insist on using it over the phone.

Oh I agree on addressing someone verbally, you’d say Dr Surname. But we’re talking about what name is within their email address in the directory…so shows up at the top. And what name they use to sign off at the bottom of their email as well as signature block. Where I worked it was Dr full name, rank, etc.

'Lol' ing at someone because their experience is different to your own isn't really a very mature way to advance a discussion.

For various (referenced) examples of stereotype threat, Delusions of Gender is still a good source I'd have thought. I've not read it for quite a while, probably quite refreshing as it was rather before the eruption of 'genderism', so dealt more with the real issues gender stereotypes cause women.

Yeah, the LOL🙄

I always signed *. Surname anyway on my emails, as the conversation was tick box technical, and I rarely talked to or saw clients. I don't think bias via in-house email is what people are trying to avoid. My sex is irrelevant.

I work in a male-dominated STEM environment and it's only new, young admin women who do email pronouns. Revealing in itself.

A couple of the older HR types do in mine. None of the scientists and engineers though. We're a global company, quite often sex isn't apparent from the name, it's not a big deal (this is where occasionally a 'they' in an email may be useful for a while).

I agree it makes little difference to how you are treated as it super funking obvious what sex people are in nearly all cases.

My shortened name is unisex and I can tell when people think I'm male. I like it. Gives me a window to make first impressions before they get to judge.

By putting pronouns however you are laying active claim to all the pretty little female stereotypes. Hell will freeze over before I add pronouns to my email and I never won't think it makes you look like a useful idiot.

Yes I agree including pronouns should be optional.