Backlash

[LastnightIdreamtofsomebagels]

I found out today on the Glinner interview with G Gluck that Section 28 happened as a reaction to PIE.

Which of you think homosexuals are going to have to deal with another huge backlash once the trans thing is exposed for what it is?

It’d already been documented in the US that tolerance towards “LGBT” has begun to decrease, especially among the young. It’s worried me for a while.

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-acceptance-millennials-decline-glaad-survey/1503758001/

I think there is going to be a backlash and it scares me for all my LGB friends who’ve been caught up in this.

I think you'll find that that statement — that Section 28 was a response to PIE — is contested.

But yes, my LGB friends are all predicting that when the turnaround comes they'll suffer. Too many people just think LGB and TQ+ are all the same. It's really important that we see plenty of positive young LGB roles models to ensure that when the backlash arrives young people have something to hold onto. Older people like me have our circles and communities and events to depend on (even if they're organised underground) but for young LGB people there's nothing — because so many 20-somethings at the moment are transallies and because the media tends to queer anyone who's LGB.

Absolutely as an older lesbian I expect a backlash, which is why I speak out on this matter.
I'm here for the young lesbians but not for the queers.

@pattihews

I think you'll find that that statement — that Section 28 was a response to PIE — is contested.

That's interesting. I wonder where they got that from then?

Yep, it’s already happening. There’s definitely more homophobia now than when I came out 25 years ago, it’s quite frightening. We’ve gone backwards.

One reason the LGBA is needed, I guess.

While I agree there may be problems for LGB because of the overreach of the transactivists. I'm cautiously optimistic that their rights are now enshrined in law, and also there are significant numbers 'out' in the corridors of power, all across the political spectrum. I can't see those rights being reneged on in the U.K.

I am old and I certainly don’t remember there being any causality there. Rather it was a traditional Tory government trying to stamp down on things it didn’t like.

I don't remember PIE ever being mentioned in the run up to Section 28. I never heard of PIE until later.

I agree that I don't think that the legal rights would change (equal marriage, equal age of consent etc.). I would be more concerned about the behaviour of the wider population - it may once again become unsafe to hold hands in public (before any pedants turn up, I'm aware that homophobic attacks do happen already, but they are much rarer than they might be)

It must be a concern for the LGB community and for those trans people who just want a quiet life that we are always being told about.
It feels a bit Handmaid's Tale where society becomes progressive then regresses. Everyone who was out in the progressive order are on a list to be dealt with. Scary stuff. I think it is really important to keep distinguishing between sexual orientation (LGB) and the rest of the alphabet who are about queering, blurting boundaries etc.

Blurring boundaries not blurting!

I really hope not.

The TQ+ should never have been partnered up with the LGB.

As long as the forced teaming of LGB and TQ+ keeps happening, then yes I expect there will be a backlash.

That is why it is important to separate them.
They never should have been jammed together in the first place.

Exactly @DifficultBloodyWoman i think the TQ realised very early on that to get any kind of traction they would have to jump on the coat tails of the. LGB. Without it it is nothing. I think this forced teaming has been horrendous for the LGB. You can’t have a group which is about Same sex attraction and a group denying sex is real in the same movement. We now have lesbians compared to racists for not being willing to date males ffs. By a LGBT organisation. The very people who should be supporting Lesbians against males telling them to ‘accept the penis’ is condemning them. . How is this not conversion therapy by stealth?

Yes, I think there's going to be a backlash and it's already started.
This whole thing is often posited as a left vs right issue which is incorrect. There are people from all over the political spectrum on both sides, but broadly I'd characterise it as a 'left vs left' issue.
There is a faction on the left that has completely lost the plot but until recently most of the pushback has also come from the left, mostly women and gay people.
However, if anyone thinks that the far right and homophobic factions aren't going to make hay out of a catastrophic weakness on the left, they're very naive.

I listened to some of that video too. I think it was something the guest said: a man I hadn't seen before, whose name wasn't clear from the info given on You Tube. I'm afraid I sometimes find the scattered style of Graham's Mess very difficult to endure and this was one of those occasions. The PIE scandal was back in the 70s and as soon as it was mentioned someone in the real-time comments questioned it.

PIE was a scandal in the 70s.

Section 28 was brought in 1988 as a result of two things according to everything I've read. First there was a backlash to the liberalisation of some London boroughs, which brought in new policies supporting LGB people, funded LGB groups and permitted books such as Jennifer Has Two Daddies to be stocked in libraries. Mary Whitehouse was still very active during this period and openly homophobic and influential and campaigned against this. Then came AIDS in the 80s, and homophobia went through the roof. Section 28 was passed in 1988 when AIDS was pretty much at its height.

This is the first time I've ever seen PIE linked to Section 28. I suspect some people over-connect.

www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/westminster/part-g-paedophile-information-exchange/g1-introduction

Link for background- from IICSA- independent inquiry into CSA.

I think that since all lesbian spaces are now gone, they are banned from pride and pillioried that it couldnt get any worse.
I hope that once those dick having lesbians are finally exposed that women who love women will get everything back.,

In think it's probably peak anti lgbt right now and once the tq is shed things willmgetvbetter. Well except for those like talcum who led the attacks and sheltered the pedos and misogynist.hopefully he will do a katie Hopkins and be a disgraced angry expat raging from obscure places on the internet.

I think LGB Alliance was formed just in time. Thank goodness, there is an LGB organisation that clearly distanced itself from Queer Theory and has been speaking up.
Any LGB person with any sense will be doing the same.
It's not LGB people; it's not transsexuals: it's the fetishists and "spicy straights" who are the biggest problem this time.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I hope that most LGB people will escape the backlash. I'm concerned about the transsexuals, who also raised the alarm very early on and who are likely to be worst affected.

Yes, there was a lot going on: the UK was just beginning to wake up to the existence of child sexual abuse. But putting Section 28 down to PIE is not accurate. It may have been a small part of it but the tide of homophobia as a result of AIDS made it possible. Believe me. I had lesbian teacher friends and an HIV+ gay colleague who suffered as a result and none of them mentioned PIE or CSA. It was about putting LGB people back in the closet.

TBC I wasn't suggesting that. There's been a lot of speculating, and I thought it would be useful (after interest piqued and researching myself) to put the info up. Thought it might add clarity either way.
I found it interesting as had no idea about this and I don't like to form opinions/form theories without factual info.
I don't think this actually does give clear credence to the PIE/sec 28 link, but it's certainly interesting in terms of what's coming up in discussions around the queer theory/Breslow stuff now.

And maybe how might easily get to place similar to that again I suppose