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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wider Lens - Tomboys

12 replies

fabricstash · 08/10/2022 08:31

I really like the wider lens podcast and the latest one to drop was a chat to Ellie who grew up as a tomboy was really interesting. I think especially about the honesty she had from her family (along with the love). Do watch the linked youtube video in the notes. We have just really narrowed down how a boy or a girl can express themselves these days

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/gender-a-wider-lens-podcast/id1542655295?i=1000581893393

OP posts:
DameMaud · 08/10/2022 10:05

This is a brilliant episode and would be good to share with people who don't understand the issues we have with questioning the current approach to gender dysphoria/identity. It's lived experience, and also highlights how much things have changed at GIDS in recent years.
Ellie's short BBC vid made when she was 11, and had been through her process at GIDS - that she discusses and links in the show notes is wonderful! That in itself illustrates so much!

SpringCalling · 08/10/2022 10:13

thank you - am now following this podcast

3timeslucky · 08/10/2022 10:39

SpringCalling · 08/10/2022 10:13

thank you - am now following this podcast

If you have the time it is worth going back and listening through all the episodes. There's a wealth of information and input from so many different people. It is a real treasure trove.

DameMaud · 08/10/2022 10:46

3timeslucky · 08/10/2022 10:39

If you have the time it is worth going back and listening through all the episodes. There's a wealth of information and input from so many different people. It is a real treasure trove.

Agree 3times!
Also recommend 'You must be some kind of Therapist' podcast. Pretty new, but she has some similar vids on gender and like Stella and Sasha, has worked with gender questioning teens. She is moving to focus on detransitioners now, as she recognised how hard it must be, in the US, for detransitioner to trust therapists who advocate affirmation only.
As psychotherapy is so fully captured in the US, she also does a fascinating interview with a psychologist, about providing therapy for heterodox people generally; those who don't subscribe to gender or critical theory, and who feel excluded and judged by most other therapists.
I'll find and link

DameMaud · 08/10/2022 10:49

Here's one where she has a seminar and Q&A with trainee psychologists/therapists. Very hopeful there could be more of this:

secular111 · 08/10/2022 11:00

Lesbians United campaigned for Tomboys just this year with its Save The Tomboys effort across six US cities.

In the UK the TRA and Mermaids supporter Frances Coppola is probably most famously known for her effort to trans tomboys, posted within 24 hours of the England women's national football team winning the UEFA Women's Championship. A lot of TRA's but driven crazy by seeing so many young women wearing shorts and playing soccer.

ReunitedThorns · 08/10/2022 11:14

Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but watched the YouTube video (from 1994). It's interesting how in 94 this BBC short on children's TV was much more open and progressive than today's stuff. We were accepting of differences between children and how tomboys didn't have a medical problem. GNC was just the spice of life, not a medical disorder.

Today we see stuff like "I play football and like the colour blue so I'm going to have a double mastectomy", and how life is so miserable for children.

Ellie had a positive attitude in the video and really shows how regressive society has become in 2022.

DameMaud · 08/10/2022 11:29

secular111 · 08/10/2022 11:00

Lesbians United campaigned for Tomboys just this year with its Save The Tomboys effort across six US cities.

In the UK the TRA and Mermaids supporter Frances Coppola is probably most famously known for her effort to trans tomboys, posted within 24 hours of the England women's national football team winning the UEFA Women's Championship. A lot of TRA's but driven crazy by seeing so many young women wearing shorts and playing soccer.

Oh Lawd that Coppola tweet made me so cross!!!

fabricstash · 08/10/2022 12:30

Me too!

OP posts:
TheClogLady · 08/10/2022 14:10

These two tweets are proper what-the-fuckery, looked at in combination

Person X: ‘provocatively transes (fictional) tomboy, who is beloved of (real) tomboys past and present’

Person Y: ‘Ha, funny joke - those stupid GCs must be paranoid to believe anyone is actually transing tomboys’

Meanwhile, adult women (many of whom are GNC themselves) are looking at all the recently published books, academic papers and plays twisting the narratives of our long deceased sheros of history so that Queer Theorists can claim them as ‘transmen’…

And we’re battling the erasure of important, descriptive words like ‘Lesbian’ from the biographies of trail blazing Butch ladies?

And we’re witnessing our own daughters going from carefree tomboys, to puberty-distressed teens, to adopting new, fashionable ‘nonbinary’ or ‘transmasc’ identities learned through secondary school LGBT clubs or social media, identities that lead them to hate their healthy, female bodies and withdraw into social circles entirely populated by other body-hating teens, all seeking to escape that hatred via a fantasy sold by big pharma, a fantasy that will make our daughters medical-patients-for-life…

Yet we’re ‘ridiculous’?

Ridiculous for what?
Noticing there is a problem?
Noticing there is a pattern?
Realising all these things are connected?
For caring about our daughters?
For caring about other people’s daughters?
For telling the Queer Theorists to leave the tomboys out of their weird postmodern gobbledygook?
And for telling them to leave the lesbians out of their weird postmodern gobbledygook?
For not seeing anything to make jokes about?

To use a well-worn Mumsnettism,

ODFOD.

Wider Lens - Tomboys
Wider Lens - Tomboys
BirdinaHedge · 08/10/2022 14:24

Gender: A Wider Lens podcast is brilliant, just brilliant.

Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley are experts in their profession, and they approach the topics with such openness. I think their most used word is "curious."

Ms O'Malley in particular has been attacked, attempts to doxx her etc etc, but she really seems to be so accepting and open, and seeking to help children & their families stay healthy and self-fulfilled.

DameMaud · 08/10/2022 14:27

Yes Cloglady!!! Spot on!

And I had an LGBT♾️training recently that didn't mention girls or lesbians AT ALL. Only a transman talking about having less privilege than transwomen🙄
(Talked about this in another thread. I was shaking throughout. Don't know how much of it was fear of challenging and how much of it was rage)

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