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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sturgeon: JKR not a "real" feminist like her

27 replies

NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 13:35

Because of course the only true form of feminism centres men.

Link for those who choose to click

Funny how Sturgeon's "feminism" centres men and excludes women of ethnic minorities, women who have been abused, and children.

Which reminds me: if I like the Rebus novels, am I likely to enjoy the Cormorant Strike series?

Sturgeon: JKR not a "real" feminist like her
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MangyInseam · 07/10/2022 13:40

Yes, I think you probably would like the Strike novels if you like other mystery series. They are very readable for the most part and well put together. Though I had trouble with Cuckoo's Calling, I kept starting it and not getting through the first quarter. It just didn't seem to have as much oomph.

I don't take NS seriously, but I suppose it's fair enough to defend yourself from a t-shirt slogan. I do think that she doesn't get it, it's not just that she doesn't care.

NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 14:02

Why is it fair enough for NS to defend herself from a t-shirt, but not fair enough for women to defend their right to female only spaces? That's NS choosing to not understand things. Wilful ignorance if you like.

Anyway, thank you for the book feedback. I will be ordering the first one to read on holiday.

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SingingSands · 07/10/2022 14:21

I'm a huge Rebus fan. And a huge disliker of Sturgeon. Not read any Strike novels yet.

I feel that Sturgeon knows what the issues are, knows very well, but can't be seen to be agreeing with wimmin. She's "be kind" on steroids. Be kind to the point of being unsafe.

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 14:27

Never thought I'd see the day 'author likes tweet' is a viable headline.

But here we are.

How are you getting on with buffer zones round abortion clinics, Nicola? And all the other 'feminist' acts you've achieved so far? A comprehensive list of which below:

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 14:28

''I've spent my entire life campaigning for women's rights, and I'm a passionate feminist with lots of evidence behind that'.'

Where is this evidence?

Would genuinely like to see it.

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 14:31

Heartened to see all the #teamrowling comments, though.

Pearfacebanana · 07/10/2022 14:45

It all makes sense why Sturgeon is pro trans...

Perhaps she'll bring out some more of her "YOU MUST LISTEN TO ME" radio ads to aid her cause.

Sturgeon: JKR not a "real" feminist like her
NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 14:51

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 14:31

Heartened to see all the #teamrowling comments, though.

Quite. The main TRA crowd seems to be on Twitter & Reddit nowadays. The support for JKR on the DM article is wonderful.

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SudocremOnEverything · 07/10/2022 15:03

I mean… why is the first minister of Scotland worrying about what T-shirts people wear and sniping back on social media about it?

seriously. She’s the first minister. People will criticise her based on her performance and choices. It comes with the territory.

Rather than being upset about that, could she maybe actually get on with doing something useful to govern Scotland. I don’t know about anyone else but the international debacle about the state of Scottish education seems a more pressing concern for the first minister than a who is more feminist argument with an author (however influential).

it’s just embarrassing.

JellySaurus · 07/10/2022 15:17

Didn't Sturgeon once say she had feminist fingertips?

wijjjy · 07/10/2022 16:29

By her own logic, if she identifies as a feminist and she's lived as a feminist for 3 months, that makes her as much of a feminist as anyone here.

Of course it's absolute shit.

NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 16:51

This reply has been deleted

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Hitatiks · 07/10/2022 18:09

NS is right though. Abusive men are the problem. What she’s failing to explain is why men who are abusive will considerately not use the safeguarding loopholes of gender ideology to attack or humiliate women, or traverse women’s boundaries and dignities in private spaces.

NS is perfectly capable of understanding all this. But she has set her mantle of Scotland’s identity as ‘progressive’. So she is prepared to sacrifice women’s safety, dignity and fairness to this identity goal. This decentring of women is why she is not a feminist.

NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 18:19

Fingertips indeed.

Sturgeon: JKR not a "real" feminist like her
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NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 18:21

https://twitter.com/chrisdeerin/status/1388860234807009281?s=46&t=-b1lv9l9Y9qHNt7AhwvPjg

13th tweet in that thread.

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MeridasMum · 07/10/2022 18:43

Hitatiks · 07/10/2022 18:09

NS is right though. Abusive men are the problem. What she’s failing to explain is why men who are abusive will considerately not use the safeguarding loopholes of gender ideology to attack or humiliate women, or traverse women’s boundaries and dignities in private spaces.

NS is perfectly capable of understanding all this. But she has set her mantle of Scotland’s identity as ‘progressive’. So she is prepared to sacrifice women’s safety, dignity and fairness to this identity goal. This decentring of women is why she is not a feminist.

^

This, 100%

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 19:09

Hitatiks · 07/10/2022 18:09

NS is right though. Abusive men are the problem. What she’s failing to explain is why men who are abusive will considerately not use the safeguarding loopholes of gender ideology to attack or humiliate women, or traverse women’s boundaries and dignities in private spaces.

NS is perfectly capable of understanding all this. But she has set her mantle of Scotland’s identity as ‘progressive’. So she is prepared to sacrifice women’s safety, dignity and fairness to this identity goal. This decentring of women is why she is not a feminist.

100%

Hexenjagd · 07/10/2022 22:46

I love rebus. I also love the Strike novels EVEN MORE. (Sorry Mr Rankin)

Strike does gritty criminal realism just as good. But I think Galbraith is more nuanced. And absolutely more feminist.

As an aside, I’ve started to notice HOW VAWG is portrayed in crime fiction. And Galbraith doesn’t Piss me off in that respect.

Hoardasurass · 07/10/2022 23:09

www.spectator.co.uk/article/-real-feminist-nicola-sturgeon-hits-back-at-jk-rowling
The comments on this one are almost all pro jk 😀

FemaleAndLearning · 07/10/2022 23:10

Maybe Nicola has trimmed her nails so all her feminism is in the bin.

Smilelesstalkmore · 07/10/2022 23:26

I just can't with Sturgeon now - the complete and utter willful refusal to address such an obvious point is just so frustrating.

Waitwhat23 · 07/10/2022 23:45

NyanBinaryJohn · 07/10/2022 18:19

Fingertips indeed.

Seems quite a bit of evidence to show that Sturgeon is not any kind of feminist - twitter.com/CallieMac88/status/1578347005965135873?s=20&t=oIhE0MXvz6iwOVQIcwR38A

'Feminist to her fingertips'. Aye right.

ArabellaScott · 11/10/2022 22:34

twitter.com/ForWomenScot/status/1579118512437866496

'We've been testing the claim that Nicola Sturgeon made on RBBC4. and others about her history of feminist action.

We thought we'd look at the easy stuff, the bare minimum for an MSP; supporting motions.'

Great work (if somewhat depressing for the women of Scotland) from ForWomenScotland.

ArabellaScott · 11/10/2022 22:39

I hope it's okay to paste the thread in its entirety (links won't paste, they're replaced by three asterisks):

'We searched on the Parliament website for motions with key words from 1999 when parliament opened and Sturgeon was elected to 2007 when she became a minister (and unable to add her name).

First we tried "international women's day"
This returned motions relating to victims of trafficking or domestic abuse. Familiar names, like Johann Lamont, Elaine Smith, Pauline McNeil, Sandra White, Kenny Gibson, etc reappear. Curiously, not the "real" feminist FM.
We then tried "violence against women" which returned 42 results, including amendments, on motions like 16 days of activism, white ribbon campaign, condemnation of FGM etc.

We are delighted report that the real feminist managed to sign one and put in an amendment on another.
How about "sex discrimination"? Again, many familiar names incl Johann, Elaine, Annabelle Ewing, Susan Duncan, Marlyn Glenn - even Patrick Harvie managed to lend his name to a couple! But of the feminist to her fingertips, there was not a sign.

What about debates?

Again we started with "international women's day" and this time expanded the search, as there is nothing to stop ministers speaking in the chamber. The website seems to be missing chunks, but the returns generated are here:

*

"IWD" returned a couple more recent debates here, including the one in which Patrick Harvie disgraced himself:

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"Violence against women" returned a couple of recent contributions from the FM. She had to be there as she was responding to questions. There are also a couple from her time as DFM. But before that? Not so much.

*

As DFM, she spoke in a debate in 2007 & was asked by @1_elainesmith about women in prostitution. She promised the Gov would "give the highest priority to helping those vulnerable women to get out of prostitution."

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Despite a stated belief by the Gov that prostitution is VAW, and dedicated work by @CPG_CSE, MSPs like Ruth Maguire and ministers like Ash Regan there has been shamefully slow progress. We responded to this consultation nearly 2 years ago now.

*

Would a passionate feminist who thought this was VAW really be so laid back about passing legislation?

So how about debates featuring the word "prostitution" prior to Sturgeon becoming DFM? I think we are getting the idea!
We did a search on motions too

*

We hope some journalists challenge Ms Sturgeon & those celebs & blue ticks applauding her interviews ask themselves if this is yet another instance of self ID!

*

One of the women who figures prominently in the motions & debates, the great @JohannLamont spoke at our rally along with Isabelle Kerr, who built rape crisis centres from the ground up.

Sturgeon had the audacity to suggest she was the "real" feminist compared to them.

Some valid comments about the virtue signalling nature of motions and how much party leaders sign (Sturgeon was deputy leader of SNP from 2004). Lucy makes a good point that when Johann was leader of Labour, she tabled them to get a vote on an issue.

twitter.com/LucyHunterB/status/1579233773639856129?s=20&t=4oJZy44BBDIIJFKdIb-BnQ

Checked motions in Sturgeon's name prior to becoming party leader (the search also incl amendments). There is a range: several on law, but also protests against European Gov restrictions on the hijab, freezing prescription charges, European Parl seats & some relating to children.

We have no doubt that many of these motions were important but there is nothing, aside from one amendment on VAW, specifically about women.

After becoming deputy leader, Ms Sturgeon continued to table motions:

A search for motions with the single word "women" returns 167 motions for the period up to 2004. They cover women's health services, DV, rape, abortion rights. A sample is included below.

We found that Ms Sturgeon did sign - but did not table - a handful, incl some which only mentioned women in passing.

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