Existential Angst

[InterestingUsernameTBC]

Events at work this week and the discussion here re: Nicola Sturgeon have reignited my recurring feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness.

To express perfectly reasonable, understandable, logical, evidenced concerns about the harms that come from self-ID and to have that all just dismissed.

I really fear for the society my daughters are growing up in and I feel utterly powerless to do anything about it. The march towards self-ID feels inevitable. And I just can't envisage a reasonable outcome.

How do we create a society that recognises and accepts all those people who, for whatever reason, want to deny their sex whilst simultaneously recognising and accepting all those people who, for whatever reason, want to (or can't help but...) recognise sex?

We can all accept people of other religious beliefs, and make accommodations for them to hold and practice their beliefs because there is no obligation on us to participate in those beliefs or any associated rituals in everyday life. (Totally understandable to observe rituals you may not believe in when you're in someone else's religious space. And as a society we do allow people to have religious spaces.)

But with self-ID we are all expected to participate in an individual's belief about themselves. We are all asked to participate in their rituals through the use of pronouns. Their 'religious space' as we might see it, becomes society itself. So where do those of us who don't share that belief system fit into society?

Interesting thread although I must disagree with this slightly uncharitable view of existentialism - and would recommend reading Viktor Frankl. He was a holocaust survivor himself & his book "Man's Search For Meaning" is about his time in the camps and his own struggle to stay alive. Its a hard read but full of great wisdom, not a hint of luxurious pontificating but the harsh realities of what gives live purpose when everything is taken away from you, including your personhood.

Some more musings. I'm no philosopher. Maybe this is all a load of whatever. But anyway.

Post modernism holds that there is no universal truth. That truth is dependent on who is experiencing it. Truth is individual. Can we embrace individual truth but somehow hold onto a collective truth at the same time? I can't see how we can. To accept individual truth is to let go of any kind of collective reality. And if my truth is that there is a collective reality then in order to embrace individual truth I must let go of my own reality and I find that deeply destabilising and disorientating.

There's also the post modern idea that words dictate reality.
A cat only becomes a cat because we label it a cat. It could just as easily be a dog. And if that's the case what do words even mean? How do we have any collective meaning? How do we describe reality? What even is reality?

If the word woman means a male or a female person then what is a woman? How do you describe the reality of being a woman? Is there even a reality of being a woman? Am I a woman? Do women even exist?

So if I work it back. Of course women exist we all came out of one. Am I a woman? Of course, I've had 2 babies. Is there a reality of being a woman. I believe there is. The reality is whatever you experience as a female person.

So I can't accept that the word woman includes male people. And if it does then we need a new word for female people. And if there are female people who believe that word does not apply to them then I don't see how I can embrace that without letting go of my own reality. And I appreciate that they may well be experiencing the exact same feelings but from the other side, that if my truth is reality then they have to let go of their own reality.

So as a society where do we go from here?

@InterestingUsernameTBC

From wiki on 'Consensus Reality':

Consensus reality[1] is that which is generally agreed to be reality, based on a consensus view.

The appeal to consensus arises from the idea that humans do not fully understand or agree upon the nature of knowledge or ontology, often making it uncertain what is real, given the vast inconsistencies between individual subjectivities.[2][3] Humans can, however, seek to obtain some form of consensus, with others, of what is real. This consensus can be used as a pragmatic guide, either on the assumption that it seems to approximate some kind of valid reality, or simply because it is more "practical" than perceived alternatives. Consensus reality therefore refers to the agreed-upon concepts of reality which people in the world, or a culture or group, believe are real (or treat as real), usually based upon their common experiences as they believe them to be; anyone who does not agree with these is sometimes stated to be "in effect... living in a different world."[4]

Throughout history this has also raised a social question as to the effects of a society in which all individuals do not agree upon the same reality.

Children have sometimes been described or viewed as "inexperience[d] with consensus reality,"[5] though are described as such with the expectation that their perspective will progressively form closer to the consensus reality of their society as they age.

It seems, what we are in the midst of, is a worldwide cal to change existing consensus reality.
The last little paragraph is interesting, as I link this with a cultural shift from valuing the wisdom of youth I've the wisdom of age.
The value of maturity and emotional and social development does seem less valued than it used to be, imo.

I enjoyed your post. Love a philosophical view

Typos!
call not cal to change.
Over the wisdom of age, not I've

@DameMaud
Thank you. I think you've grasped what I'm getting at and you've helped give it some context.
It seems, what we are in the midst of, is a worldwide call to change existing consensus reality.
Yes. That's it. And that's destabilising.

@InterestingUsernameTBC
Yes. I'm finding it all very destabilising too.
Sometimes think I should stay away from it all as I think it does affect mental health. But then so does willful ignorance and silence.
I think it's helped to start tentatively speaking out (did recently in my professional life); in one way it helped to say what I thought and felt rather than swallowing it down. At the same time, it was actually physiologically traumatic- especially when effectively ignored/dismissed.
It's a conundrum!

@DameMaud
At the same time, it was actually physiologically traumatic- especially when effectively ignored/dismissed.
Oh my God. Yes. This.

@InterestingUsernameTBC
It's good to finally feel less alone. Thank god for Mumsnet!
Nice to meet you Intresting!🖐