Page 2 | UK: A non-binary sailor has been cleared of a sexual assault charge after arguing in court that he was "demisexual" and therefore could not have committed the crime.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 2022-10-07T08:54:00+00:00

Did anyone see the below? (Not sure if it's been posted). A sailor was cleared after non consensually kissing, licking and 'grinding up' on a fellow serviceman, despite there being a female witness because he's claimed his demisexual identify meant he couldn't commit the crime. https://t.co/wlOlPyVK1z The worlds gone mad. What's next, someone saying 'I identify as innocent' on the stand. That's pretty much what he said. It's giving sexual predators and paedos the green light to commit assaults, even if you have witnesses, it still doesn't matter.

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 11:52

Echobelly · 07/10/2022 11:16

I was possibly going to add that of there was a witness she was a woman and thus ignorable. Because women always have a motive to 'get a man in trouble' because of their vengeful lady brains or something. 😠

@TheBirdintheCave - thanks for your post. I understand what DS is as a thing but I'm still not really sure in my mind it counts as a sexuality so much as a way of approaching relationships. But that's for another thread i suppose😊

I don't understand how a lack of sexual attraction (caused by biochemistry) could be about relationships (a social choice)? 🤷🏻‍♀️🤔

I had sex both in and out of relationships in my twenties. There was no correlation there re whether the sex was good or not. I had boyfriends who I didn't feel attraction for even after we got together yet had amazing sex a few times with someone from work who I had a deep connection with.

I couldn't understand why most of the time I didn't enjoy sex even if I thought a person was aesthetically pleasing. It didn't click until I read about demisexuality last year and all of the pieces came together.

Without that knowledge, dating was hard work. Looking back it was like going in blind. Because I never experienced that initial spark with anyone I always had to take a gamble and spend a lot of time with someone before I knew if I was ever going to be attracted to them.

I think most people do it the other way around and only date someone they have some sexual attraction to.

But you're right in that this is not a discussion for this thread as it's detracting from the topic, so that's the last I'll explain of my experiences and I'm happy to drop it :)

Honeylover333 · 07/10/2022 12:02

What's next, someone saying 'I identify as innocent' on the stand?

That is pretty much the case now. Only for men, obviously. And only very special men who have a special identity.

belleager · 07/10/2022 12:27

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 11:04

As a demisexual, can I explain what it actually means?

I literally have no sexual attraction to anyone until I fall in love with them. Literally no one. Not an actor or singer, not even my husband when I first met him. I have never experienced lust for a stranger. I have never 'fancied' anyone.

I can appreciate when someone is aesthetically pleasing, in the same way that I might admire a painting or think that a landscape is beautiful but there's never been a moment in my life when I've thought 'I want to have sex with that person' or even fantasised about anyone like that.

It doesn't mean I don't enjoy sex, just that I don't experience any form of chemical sexual attraction at all until I have a deep connection with someone.

Mine, I think, is a byproduct of my autism as my brain is wired differently anyway.

I hope that helps explain what it is a little better :)

In regard to the story I don't see how the person could use demisexuality as a defence. If he knew the victim well then he very well could have developed an attraction to them.

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Is this unusual? Genuine question. Would apply to me and I've never given it a second thought.

waterwitch · 07/10/2022 12:44

Is this for real? Or has someone copied the name & photo from the BBC website and been a bit creative? It just seems so unlikely…

Signalbox · 07/10/2022 12:45

Is this unusual? Genuine question. Would apply to me and I've never given it a second thought.

Obviously you need to work harder on your navel-gazing.

RoseslnTheHospital · 07/10/2022 12:56

waterwitch · 07/10/2022 12:44

Is this for real? Or has someone copied the name & photo from the BBC website and been a bit creative? It just seems so unlikely…

There was a listed court case in the martial courts on the 3rd of October this year, for an Able Seaman of this name according to the military court listings you can access online. So a court martial did most definitely take place.

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 12:59

@belleager I'm not sure how unusual it is in terms of how many other people in the world are the same but, as far as I'm aware, it's not the average way a human experiences attraction.

WandaWomblesaurus · 07/10/2022 13:03

www.forces.net/lgbtq/how-small-changes-what-you-say-can-help-people-feel-included

Interesting that he's so vocal about it

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 13:08

@Signalbox You don't have to take on any labels for yourself or even call it anything if you feel happy as you are :)

For me personally, I really struggled with it in adolescence. I thought I was broken and spent a lot of my twenties trying to understand why I didn't fancy anyone and, in some instances, even trying to create it by choosing someone to date who I knew other people would find attractive.

For a long time I thought I was just an asexual in denial but when I read about demisexuality it felt like everything came together and I finally had a word to explain something about myself that had always been a confusing mystery.

Original poster

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 07/10/2022 13:21

Honeylover333 · 07/10/2022 12:02

What's next, someone saying 'I identify as innocent' on the stand?

That is pretty much the case now. Only for men, obviously. And only very special men who have a special identity.

Yep. That's a fear with this whole self identity, it's gone too far. This is all madness. We've got victims with witnesses not being believed, we've got women who've been raped having to call their male rapists female. It's ridiculous.

OP posts:

Signalbox · 07/10/2022 14:11

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 13:08

@Signalbox You don't have to take on any labels for yourself or even call it anything if you feel happy as you are :)

For me personally, I really struggled with it in adolescence. I thought I was broken and spent a lot of my twenties trying to understand why I didn't fancy anyone and, in some instances, even trying to create it by choosing someone to date who I knew other people would find attractive.

For a long time I thought I was just an asexual in denial but when I read about demisexuality it felt like everything came together and I finally had a word to explain something about myself that had always been a confusing mystery.

I wouldn't say I was happy as I am. I've always known that my romantic/sexual attachment is slightly different to others. I just don't think that naming it will make any difference to me in any real sense. But it's great if doing that helps other people.

waterwitch · 07/10/2022 14:13

Roses fair point, I withdraw my remark!

Cailleach1 · 07/10/2022 14:36

RoseslnTheHospital · 07/10/2022 12:56

There was a listed court case in the martial courts on the 3rd of October this year, for an Able Seaman of this name according to the military court listings you can access online. So a court martial did most definitely take place.

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How would one find that judgement? I've put Able Seaman with the surname and am only getting media reports.

RoseslnTheHospital · 07/10/2022 14:41

The court listing shows the date and type of court case, not the outcome. The results of trials seem to be published a long time after the court cases have happened. The most recent outcomes list I could find is dated 2020 but published earlier this year.

Cailleach1 · 07/10/2022 14:48

I've found the list where the CM trial was to be held on 3rd October at 10am of an AB TF Smythe (HMS Nelson), at Military Court Centre, Court 2. No judgement, though.

Cailleach1 · 07/10/2022 14:51

Thanks @RoseslnTheHospital . It would be interesting to see what occurred. It does rather defy belief that someone could use that sort of bs to blag their way out of something. However, maybe there was something more credible in the case. Maybe.

SammyScrounge · 14/01/2023 14:14

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2022 10:51

Smythe seems to think that the only thing that matters is Smythe's inner feels, and to hell with everyone else.

It's terrifying that the law agrees

Florissant · 14/01/2023 14:26

Let me guess: the sailor in question is male. The victim could be of either sex, though.

bellac11 · 14/01/2023 14:32

Signalbox · 07/10/2022 11:27

This would apply to me.

I don’t really understand why it needs a special name though. What difference does it make to anything?

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Its absolute bullshit and applies to probably about 50% of people,, perhaps more women than men

Demi sexual my arse!!!!

Thesonglastslonger · 14/01/2023 14:49

What’s happened here is:

A man forcibly touched someone sexually, despite their lack of consent and protests.
A woman saw the while thing and gave a witness statement. This would ordinarily be enough evidence to result in a conviction.
The man argued that he didn’t enjoy the assault, so it didn’t count, and that he is part if a super-special group who may not have their actions questioned.
The court did not convict him.

Thelnebriati · 14/01/2023 15:41

This is an old thread but I'll just post this; if the Gender Recognition Act means this argument couldn't be used as a defence by a person with a GRC, why is it permitted for someone who just claims an identity?

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/20/enacted?view=interweave

KatMcBundleFace · 14/01/2023 16:41

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 11:04

As a demisexual, can I explain what it actually means?

I literally have no sexual attraction to anyone until I fall in love with them. Literally no one. Not an actor or singer, not even my husband when I first met him. I have never experienced lust for a stranger. I have never 'fancied' anyone.

I can appreciate when someone is aesthetically pleasing, in the same way that I might admire a painting or think that a landscape is beautiful but there's never been a moment in my life when I've thought 'I want to have sex with that person' or even fantasised about anyone like that.

It doesn't mean I don't enjoy sex, just that I don't experience any form of chemical sexual attraction at all until I have a deep connection with someone.

Mine, I think, is a byproduct of my autism as my brain is wired differently anyway.

I hope that helps explain what it is a little better :)

In regard to the story I don't see how the person could use demisexuality as a defence. If he knew the victim well then he very well could have developed an attraction to them.

Show quote history

I think this is totally normal. I suspect its the norm for a great many people and especially women. It's not special. It doesn't need a label.
I'm boringly neuro typical and think this is boringly normal.

KatMcBundleFace · 14/01/2023 16:46

TheBirdintheCave · 07/10/2022 13:08

@Signalbox You don't have to take on any labels for yourself or even call it anything if you feel happy as you are :)

For me personally, I really struggled with it in adolescence. I thought I was broken and spent a lot of my twenties trying to understand why I didn't fancy anyone and, in some instances, even trying to create it by choosing someone to date who I knew other people would find attractive.

For a long time I thought I was just an asexual in denial but when I read about demisexuality it felt like everything came together and I finally had a word to explain something about myself that had always been a confusing mystery.

Oh dear, I'm sorry you felt broken. I honestly want to reassure people, this is normal. I've never felt even a twinge of lust without being in love.

Nope. Not once.

FrancescaContini · 15/01/2023 07:38

Thesonglastslonger · 14/01/2023 14:49

What’s happened here is:

A man forcibly touched someone sexually, despite their lack of consent and protests.
A woman saw the while thing and gave a witness statement. This would ordinarily be enough evidence to result in a conviction.
The man argued that he didn’t enjoy the assault, so it didn’t count, and that he is part if a super-special group who may not have their actions questioned.
The court did not convict him.

Yes, you’ve nailed it.

I laughed at the “I identify as innocent” but in a hollow way..

HandsOffMyCarrierBags · 15/01/2023 07:59

Bloody hell!