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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2

1000 replies

ResisterRex · 06/10/2022 05:55

The first thread, towards the end of which there was a discussion about having a second thread but it wasn't added:

Mermaids being investigated by the charity commission
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4644323-mermaids-being-investigated-by-the-charity-commissionn_

There's been a new development so maybe a second thread would be useful:

Lottery pauses trans charity cash during investigation

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c959a286-44e4-11ed-8885-043c27446b97?shareToken=6d482edb1a386656502f33453da5c230

OP posts:
Thread gallery
117
TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 11/10/2022 13:31

2358853b · 11/10/2022 13:21

fuck me, it's even worse than I remembered. Thanks?

How is that even a real thing that happened?

Datun · 11/10/2022 13:44

2358853b · 11/10/2022 13:21

Sorry, what is that? Can someone explain?

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 13:47

For me one of the threads in this is outsourcing to cut costs. It is amazing how little reviewing of material is going on as part of that process too

How many people have checked Mermaids' feeds to see who and what interests its being aligned with?

Commerical companies like Asda, schools, police, nhs, law firms etc all have outsourced so they reduce their need to do in house so they don't have the responsibility inhouse which would probably be more costly. In walk organisations happy to bundle it all up so people can just box tick. And hell they can get some PR credentials in the mix to boost how they look if these organisation can cash in on trendy causes. In outsourcing, organisations don't have to think about internal liabilities nor understand the principles of safeguarding because its all done for them. Everyone is a winner.

Except of course its not. And that is why I think Alison Bailey pressing on is so necessary because even if it fails it still draws attention to the problem and is making people reconsider. She doesn't fail even if a ruling goes against her on this one. There isn't so much at stake for GCs if its lost. If its won, however you have a massive liability black hole that all this outsourcing has been ignoring.

Placing all that power into one or two centralised vehicles has also been really bad. Having a competitor in itself would shake up the system. That is starting to happen - and notably because of strength of feeling, a lot of this information being generated by GC is free. That chances the landscape of this market.

Datun · 11/10/2022 13:48

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/10/2022 13:11

Fascinating how they can't apologise - for something that every decent person knows is wrong. They're backed into a corner because their whole ethos is about breaking down children's boundaries about what is factual, safe, right for children, confidence in parents.
Most organisations faced with this would have issued a fulsome apology, an assurance that this does not represent the organisation, a promise that children's safety will always be prioritised. Presumably Mermaids are unable to do this because...... Confused

Well precisely.

If the forum was moderated properly, and children referred to the correct people in authority, rather than discord - and each other, if the residentials were subject to stringent safeguarding measures, if they weren't allowed to send out binders, and if they weren't allowed to promote transgenderism as celebratory, what would they actually do?

A girl says she likes climbing trees, and fancies other girls, and does that mean she's a boy? And the answer would be no of course not. You're completely normal.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 11/10/2022 13:51

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 11:38

On a practical level narrower age bands wouldn't work in terms of the leadership demands. Its a struggle to get enough for the divisions as it is. The size of groups in an area doesn't give enough scale to make it viable. There is a trade of in terms of size of groups thats impossible to avoid.

I would have thought that safeguarding comes first, and having determined a good level of safeguarding you then work out whether you have the staff to run the event at all? Surely you don't consider staffing levels and then go ahead and do your best irrespective of whether safeguarding is good bad or indifferent?

Thanks for your answers.

2358853b · 11/10/2022 13:53

@Datun

IIRC it was a fundraiser live stream in aid of Mermaids (not official, but they commented favourably on the clips on Twitter) involving a man in mask and princess dress performing various “bonuses” for donations. Feat creepy baby face appearing every now and then encouraging viewers to put their nipples to the screen to “breastfeed”.

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1518307844365422592

Datun · 11/10/2022 13:59

2358853b · 11/10/2022 13:53

@Datun

IIRC it was a fundraiser live stream in aid of Mermaids (not official, but they commented favourably on the clips on Twitter) involving a man in mask and princess dress performing various “bonuses” for donations. Feat creepy baby face appearing every now and then encouraging viewers to put their nipples to the screen to “breastfeed”.

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1518307844365422592

But, but...I cant. What??

Seriously, I know there's some pervy shit going on, but is that really what happened? An actual adult man put on a child's mask and told people watching to press their nipples against the screen so he could suck them? To that unutterably creepy song?

What platform was it on? Was it available to children?

2358853b · 11/10/2022 14:05

I don’t know any more than what’s on that Twitter post, thankfully (was going today unfortunately then reconsidered!)

ResisterRex · 11/10/2022 14:08

IIRC it was a fundraiser live stream in aid of Mermaids (not official, but they commented favourably on the clips on Twitter)

Bit like the "don't call your Discord group Mermaids but otherwise, crack on" approach.

Bit like not answering Jo Bartosch's question about whether they approached Breslow or he applied for the job.

Bit like saying they're making their processes "more robust" then along comes Darren Mew and there's no comment.

Bit like focusing on how the supply of a binder isn't illegal but staying silent on the harms caused by using them.

OP posts:
2358853b · 11/10/2022 14:14

Well quite.

(today = to say in my previous message, damn autocorrect!)

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 14:16

YouSirNeighMmmm · 11/10/2022 13:51

I would have thought that safeguarding comes first, and having determined a good level of safeguarding you then work out whether you have the staff to run the event at all? Surely you don't consider staffing levels and then go ahead and do your best irrespective of whether safeguarding is good bad or indifferent?

Thanks for your answers.

In scouting how do you do that with a group of 24?

Imagine 12 are 12 to 14 and 12 are 10 to 12. But only a third want to go on camp.

So actually you only have four 12 to 14 year olds (of whom 1 is a girl and 3 are boys) and four 10 to 12 year olds (of whom 2 are girls and 2 are boys).

Is it safer (for both leaders and children) to run a camp for the whole troop or to split it into two?

Week to week to split it down in half is just a complete nonsense. Part of it is working with others who are different ages too. The kids come in at a young age, learn the ropes then take on responsibility as they get older as patrol leaders. Thats THE POINT.

Its not just about leaders. Who I might add are volunteers. Its hard to get 2 or 3 to run a troop weekly as it is though. You also can't ignore venues and economic viability. In terms of inclusivity Scouts is one of the cheapest after school activities there is (often with hardship funds for the least well off too). One of the things with it, is you often get kids who aren't doing so well in a school environment who really thrive and get confidence from scouting as its a different setting and its practical rather than academic.

If you tried to split it, you'd just kill the organisation. Thats not necessarily a good thing for safeguarding either - scouting should be if run well, another place for children to be safe with more eyes looking out for wellbeing in various different ways.

Thats what ALL children's activities run for children should be like.

I get where you are coming from but its about identifying risk and responding to those weaknesses by taking precautions rather than just killing everything for kids. There is a balancing act which organisations have to navigate and demonstrate good practice. And getting kids to work as a team with people they might not otherwise work with.

I do think there is a reasonable compromise on age bands for this reason. For positive and good reasons as well as safeguarding to ensure you don't have too many issues.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 11/10/2022 14:16

Seriously, I know there's some pervy shit going on, but is that really what happened? An actual adult man put on a child's mask and told people watching to press their nipples against the screen so he could suck them? To that unutterably creepy song? What platform was it on? Was it available to children?

He streamed it on Twitch according to the URL in the clip. No idea if it was marked as adult content.

Also he kept pouring (tea I think?) in the hot tub water so it went brown. It went on for hours, that clip is just a "highlight."

Datun · 11/10/2022 14:21

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 11/10/2022 14:16

Seriously, I know there's some pervy shit going on, but is that really what happened? An actual adult man put on a child's mask and told people watching to press their nipples against the screen so he could suck them? To that unutterably creepy song? What platform was it on? Was it available to children?

He streamed it on Twitch according to the URL in the clip. No idea if it was marked as adult content.

Also he kept pouring (tea I think?) in the hot tub water so it went brown. It went on for hours, that clip is just a "highlight."

Dear God. What's that stuff supposed to be around the mask's mouth?

Datun · 11/10/2022 14:22

Honestly. I can't believe mermaids endorsed it.

this isn't just about ignorance of safeguarding. It really, really isn't.

Live4weekend · 11/10/2022 14:28

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 14:16

In scouting how do you do that with a group of 24?

Imagine 12 are 12 to 14 and 12 are 10 to 12. But only a third want to go on camp.

So actually you only have four 12 to 14 year olds (of whom 1 is a girl and 3 are boys) and four 10 to 12 year olds (of whom 2 are girls and 2 are boys).

Is it safer (for both leaders and children) to run a camp for the whole troop or to split it into two?

Week to week to split it down in half is just a complete nonsense. Part of it is working with others who are different ages too. The kids come in at a young age, learn the ropes then take on responsibility as they get older as patrol leaders. Thats THE POINT.

Its not just about leaders. Who I might add are volunteers. Its hard to get 2 or 3 to run a troop weekly as it is though. You also can't ignore venues and economic viability. In terms of inclusivity Scouts is one of the cheapest after school activities there is (often with hardship funds for the least well off too). One of the things with it, is you often get kids who aren't doing so well in a school environment who really thrive and get confidence from scouting as its a different setting and its practical rather than academic.

If you tried to split it, you'd just kill the organisation. Thats not necessarily a good thing for safeguarding either - scouting should be if run well, another place for children to be safe with more eyes looking out for wellbeing in various different ways.

Thats what ALL children's activities run for children should be like.

I get where you are coming from but its about identifying risk and responding to those weaknesses by taking precautions rather than just killing everything for kids. There is a balancing act which organisations have to navigate and demonstrate good practice. And getting kids to work as a team with people they might not otherwise work with.

I do think there is a reasonable compromise on age bands for this reason. For positive and good reasons as well as safeguarding to ensure you don't have too many issues.

My experience of Scouting - the safeguarding is excellent.

Perhaps it's just the group that my kids go to, but they know what they are doing.

nilsmousehammer · 11/10/2022 14:29

Datun · 11/10/2022 14:22

Honestly. I can't believe mermaids endorsed it.

this isn't just about ignorance of safeguarding. It really, really isn't.

No.

It's not ignorance.

Everyone's been exceptionally generous with giving the benefit of the doubt for years, but there really does come a point to wake up and smell the bloody coffee.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/10/2022 14:42

nauticant · 11/10/2022 12:45

naked collage holding penis

Even the back-in-the-day News of the World would have scratched their heads over whether to include that.

I think The News of The World would have had, shall we say, an interesting headline.

Zebracat · 11/10/2022 14:45

Do we have a timeline for Mx Mews employment history? I think no longer works for Mermaids could mean sacked 5 minutes ago.

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 14:58

Sadly safeguarding in scouting today, is partly formed because of the historic scandals it has had in the past. They drum in as part of training how important it is. Some troops are better than others but I've not seen anything give me cause for concern either.

Scouting was only able to continue and be popular by stepping up and reassuring parents. It had to demonstrate that it had learn lessons to regain trust.

That the thing Mermaids should be doing and I see no statement of intent on that. Just whinging about difficult circumstances and abuse of staff. Not a culture change which is now what is needed. I suspect you won't see that happening because their attitude is all wrong and they have a fundamental belief that safeguarding is inhertantly transphobic because it identifies risk based on sex not gender and is uncompromising on this.

Whenever anything to do with sex comes up, safeguarding goes up in all other situations with children. Mermaids and Stonewall have worked to reverse that with trans issues. Of course this will create problems.

Interestingly the way DH has understood the scout guidance on trans stuff he believes it allows room for the discretion of leaders and greater room to ensure all parties are happy with the arrangements than most other organisations. Partly because it involves encouraging open discussions about it. Their original guidance was not good but there was an update which did improve it.

Reading through it, it could be better but it's not copying outright from Stonewall. Maybe because of Scouts history...

RedToothBrush · 11/10/2022 15:02

Also. I don't live in Nottinghamshite.

TheClogLady · 11/10/2022 15:18

Re: a timeline for MxMew at Mermaids.

Attitude magazine appearance dec 2021
archive.ph/LKQ8P

this tweet from the Mermaids official account in January (screenshot)

Diva Magazine in March 2022

archive.ph/muvzy

Any advance on March, wimms?

Based on design of the Mermaids Instagram alone I reckon it’s a very recent departure, that’s just speculation on my part (albeit as someone with professional experience)

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
TheBiologyStupid · 11/10/2022 15:19

Zebracat · 11/10/2022 14:45

Do we have a timeline for Mx Mews employment history? I think no longer works for Mermaids could mean sacked 5 minutes ago.

Yes, I thought that, too.

ResisterRex · 11/10/2022 15:23

Looks like the NSPCC sees which way the wind is blowing. Thread:

twitter.com/nurtural_uk/status/1579835893753708545?s=46&t=WraZvkOiqXNP-YWuav-QvA

^@ NSPCC agrees to remove misleading puberty blockers video from its Childline website, acknowledging it was "more appropriate for its time then than now."

To be clear, it was as misleading back in 2016 as now. But are safeguarding orgs finally waking up?^

OP posts:
TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 11/10/2022 15:26

Do we have a timeline for Mx Mews employment history? I think no longer works for Mermaids could mean sacked 5 minutes ago

It does mean that. 🥝 got screenshots of his LinkedIn. On Sunday he still was listed as working there. Then it changed to say he stopped working there in October 2022.

TheBiologyStupid · 11/10/2022 15:34

Mermaids tweeted on 20 September 2022 (about a week before the Charity Commission decided to look into Mermaids, IIRC):

We're looking for a Digital Engagement Officer to join our growing team! Are you a social media whiz? Can you help us reach more people than ever before with content that not only looks great but educates, empowers and inspires? Apply today ⬇️ t.co/zMz5nP45l4"

web.archive.org/web/20221011142546/twitter.com/Mermaids_Gender/status/1572259096237338624

Of course, that could have been in addition to Mews rather than a replacement.

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