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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My Welsh MS takes offence: does yours?

18 replies

pattihews · 05/10/2022 17:57

I'm in Wales and I have an MP for Westminster and an MS, who is my representative in the Welsh Parliament. Over several years I've written to her perhaps 20 times regarding issues including planning applications for chicken farms, sewage being discharged into the sea, the removal of a number of rural public car parking areas and — four or five times — various Gender Ideology issues. She is pro-trans as are most members of the Welsh Labour Party. She and her assistants have sat grim-faced and disapproving each time I've attended surgeries to raise concerns about various Welsh Government trans initiatives.

In the last last fortnight I've written to her about two different things, one non-gender related for which I've just had a 'thank you for contacting me about this, I will follow it up' and one about threats to burn down the Cardiff hotel Filia is being held in. I reminded her that Filia is something that Cardiff and Wales should be proud to host. I reminded her that the current Welsh government boasts about creating a feminist country here in Wales, so I wondered why neither she (who is in the cabinet) doesn't appear on the list of attendees at the world's largest feminist conference. I also asked her why no one from the Welsh Government has issued a statement about the threats to visitors from all over the world coming to Filia and politely asked her to do so. I always write in a polite and businesslike way.

Her response included a superfluous final line saying she's offended at the implication that she or the Welsh Government would condone violence against anyone. Looking back through previous correspondence with her, every time trans or women's issues are mentioned, she responds with something along similar lines. 'It offends me that you seem to think...', 'I find it offensive that...'. But on chicken farms and the closure of rural parking spaces no offence is taken.

I wrote to two other female MSs who are also my representatives (the Welsh system is a strange one and we have as many as five MSs we can contact) along the same lines. One hasn't responded but the second has also said how offended she is at the implication that she isn't interested in women's concerns. I know that a friend in a different constituency has reported that her female Labour MS has become uncharacteristically emotional when asked to discuss the subject and has taken the line that she's offended that anyone would think she'd be involved in anything that wasn't in women's interests — end of discussion.

Why does asking Welsh MSs about women's and transgender issues cause such offence?

OP posts:
pattihews · 05/10/2022 18:02

Oh hell, I wrote Welsh Parliament. It should be Welsh Government. Where on earth did Parliament come from? I'd never dream of calling the Senedd 'Parliament'.

Abject apologies to everyone in Wales. And yes, I'm a sassnach.

OP posts:
YouSirNeighMmmm · 05/10/2022 18:14

Their brains cannot see any option but to give a reasoned response (impossible) or claim offence (easy)?

Chersfrozenface · 05/10/2022 18:39

[cynic on] Isn't it so that they can sic the police on you for offending them? [cynic off]

pattihews · 05/10/2022 19:01

sic the police? Do I need to be scared?

OP posts:
Isaidnoalready · 05/10/2022 19:03

pattihews · 05/10/2022 19:01

sic the police? Do I need to be scared?

Possibly however you could reply

To clarify I'm not being offensive I'm simply asking you to take action over/clarify your stance over the threats towards women

LoobiJee · 05/10/2022 22:31

So what you’re saying is that, in terms of actually doing anything, your constituency member is adopting a studiedly neutral position on violence against women and threats of violence against women, at least from certain quarters?

She would never pro-actively condone violence against anyone. But, when specifically invited to do so, neither did she pro-actively condemn threats of violence against women attending a women’s rights conference / venues associated with women attending such a conference.

You’re taken aback by her written replies talking about how offended she feels, as you’re not interested in her emotional reaction, you want to know what action she is going to take. And so you’re wondering what is driving this “emotional reply but no practical action” response to your line of questioning to her?

(That seems to sum up your post, but sorry if I’m focusing on not-the-main point.)

I think most people would claim that they feel offended because they’ve been unfairly criticised. But actually I’d say people feel offended when something they perceive as insulting to their dignity / personal integrity has been said to them. Also if they secretly / sub consciously feel they’ve fallen short of the standards they would like to set for themselves (ie a mirror has been held up where they’ve damaged their own self image). Whereas if it’s actually unfair, most people set out why it’s unfair (=aka untrue/ factually incorrect). Another circumstance in which people claim to be offended is when they’re trying to put the other person on the defensive / get them to apologise. Or to close down a discussion. There are probably other scenarios too.

Sorry, I’ve gone off on a bit of a ramble there (I feel like I should be smoking a pipe and thoughtfully rubbing my chin, lol), but I find how people (including myself) respond to what they perceive as criticism really interesting - some people (not me!) are so much better at it than others.

sawdustformypony · 05/10/2022 23:06

Sais. Couldn’t even get that right

justasking111 · 05/10/2022 23:09

I'd say your card is marked. I'd lay off for a bit

Crouton19 · 05/10/2022 23:14

This “I am offended” schtick is also the style of Tory MPs, to avoid answering a question or commenting on the tone of the question rather than the subject! Dominic Raab is particularly fluent.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/10/2022 23:16

In general, I'd say it's a common diversionary tactic - how DARE you suggest I'm a bad person! How COULD YOU suggest that about me! I'm OFFFENDED! - which moves it away from having to actually say something about the actual question.

Cookingutensil · 05/10/2022 23:19

I wouldn't have thought politics a good career choice for someone so sensitive to offence.

QuitMitheringMe · 05/10/2022 23:28

It’s a minor version of DARVO. A distraction and table turning. She’s the victim now.

justasking111 · 05/10/2022 23:34

Anyone remember Guto Bebb he'd sic the police on constituents

FemaleAndLearning · 06/10/2022 00:41

I would write back and say thank you for your letter/email and telling me you were offended but that wasn't my question. Will you please answer my questions?

What is that saying:
Noone has the right not to be offended.

pattihews · 06/10/2022 10:13

Thank you, LoobiJee. Yes, I see it very much as her trying to turn the tables on me and make me the bad person. I'm never emotive or emotional in my communication with her, even if it's gender stuff. She's done the 'both sides in this argument are as bad as each other' number on me before now, when I've been sitting opposite her at a surgery and haven't so much as raised my voice, let alone sworn.

By coincidence I'm going along to see her in her surgery tomorrow with a couple of other people about something totally different, so I may raise this with her and ask her why, whenever I ask her to show some support for women and women's rights, she takes offence.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 06/10/2022 10:26

Total DARVO. Their fear is showing

StarmanBobby · 19/10/2022 12:56

Perhaps she just sick of hearing from you moaning about stuff? The same faces to tend to pop up in surgery after surgery, and eventually staff just see them walk in a do a mental eye roll.

Redshoeblueshoe · 19/10/2022 13:02

Starman - well it's her job, she needs to act like a grown up, not a petulant child

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