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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

World's best ever women's tennis player forced to give up work to have children

58 replies

ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 11:32

I'm a bit late to the party on this but I've been waiting for someone - anyone - to say it. How come the world's best ever women's tennis player is having to give up so she can have a baby? Why is no one outraged at the lack of work/life balance?

Children have wrecked my career (couldn't take a new job as pregnant and wouldn't have qualified for maternity pay) so this is a bigger issue than just Serena!

OP posts:
Mrsjayy · 02/10/2022 12:49

As pp have pointed out Serena is 40 at the top of her game how long do you think she should be playing for ? She's hardly being hindered in her "career"

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 02/10/2022 13:04

ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 11:41

From what I understand, yes. More than happy to be proved wrong though.

"Further supporting and possibly expanding her family were some of the main reasons behind her decision to leave the game of tennis."

She is 40 and had a really difficult birth with her first child so I read this as giving up to have another baby.

She has decided to give up training and competing, all of which would have made conception more difficult, as she is now 40 and aware of the ticking of her biological clock.

Male players also tend to retire at about 40 - see Federer.

It makes no sense to demand equity/equality in areas where biology is the controlling factor. She could have chosen to take a couple of years out of her early career - like other female athletes.

MalagaNights · 02/10/2022 13:21

You should start a campaign to protest the fact that only women have babies.

MalagaNights · 02/10/2022 13:26

It's outrageous Roger Federer got to be a father without having to be pregnant.

Someone should do something.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 02/10/2022 13:28

Serena was likely to retire around now anyway, she was already old for a tennis player.

If you want a maternity leave in sport story to get cross about check out Jessica Von Bredow Werndl and her current dispute with the FEI over dressage world ranking points.

Particularly problematic in horse sports due to the very long careers and the fact that men and women compete against each other.

Dotcheck · 02/10/2022 13:29

Wanderingowl · 02/10/2022 12:27

Sorry but this is genuinely fucking stupid. She's an elite athlete. That means being in prime physical fitness. Pregnancy takes a physical toll on your body. You can't be an elite athlete while pregnant. It's just not biologically possible. You probably can't be an elite athlete in the immediate post-partum period either because first of all, your body needs to recover from pregnancy and after that it needs time to get back into peak-fitness. That will take a toll on the career of an elite athlete. And that's without breastfeeding. If the woman chooses to breastfeed, that will also need to be factored into what may not be realistic as an athlete.

There is also the reality that being an elite athlete, isn't always the best thing for your body. So it's more than possible that the exercise schedule and diet that make for maximum sporting performance, will make it difficult to get and stay pregnant.

That's biological reality. In life people have to make choices. Any woman who wants biological children and chooses to pursue a career based around physical fitness, be that as the top seeded tennis player, a professional dancer or a speleologist, will have to choose between those two things at some point in a way that man will not. Pretending that this is some sort of deliberate unfairness is ridiculous.

Absolutely this.

I’m a feminist through and through. Being a mother is a bloody privilege too. Serena is in the position to live in financial comfort- she has many many options ( career options included). Most people DO reevaluate their lives when they have kids, Serena is no different.
I suspect she’ll go into broadcasting and she’ll be just fine .

ancientgran · 02/10/2022 13:32

Give the poor woman a break. She's 40 isn't she, been a top athlete for years, even as a child she was working hard on her sport. She can afford to retire and enjoy her little girl and maybe have another.

Roger Federer is about the same age, any opinions on that?

Or Greg Rusedski retiring younger than SW and saying "“It’s been a tough last year and now, with a family, your life changes. I felt like I couldn’t do it any more.”* Imagine, a man who says his life changed because he had a family. No outrage there OP?

Frezia · 02/10/2022 13:41

*Serena could easily have afforded to pay for ‘social surrogacy’, sadly not an unusual practice amongst super wealthy/celebrity Americans in Serena’s circle.

That she didn’t do that and instead talked about the difficulties of juggling competition, training and motherhood makes her an even more admirable sports professional, to my mind.*

Exactly. She's sacrificed her career rather than rent another woman's body, this alone makes me respect her immensely, let alone all her accomplishments.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 02/10/2022 13:45

YouSirNeighMmmm · 02/10/2022 12:05

Surely one can have sympathy for the fact that being a professional sportswoman is very difficult to combine with prenancy, especially compared to how easy it is for a male sportsman's body to cope with his partner being pregnant.

Surely you can see that it is a real shame that she had to weigh up money, success, legcay in the game, with her biological clock?

I'm not saying much else, just surely you can have a bit of sympathy, even if, obviously, "extremely rich woman can't have the impossible" is hardly the greatest sob story in history.

Show quote history

That's nonsense. She's retiring from elite sport at 40, as has been pointed out Federer is doing the same at 41.

The OP's point is nonsense too. She sounds like someone in my office who having completed 3 maternity breaks with over a year off between each and less than 10 months actually back after each, working 3 days per week, is complaining that other colleagues, male and female, are ahead of her. She seems to think her contemporaries have to put their careers on hold.

Fairislefandango · 02/10/2022 14:02

What?! Who's forcing her?

TheClogLady · 02/10/2022 14:07

MalagaNights · 02/10/2022 13:26

It's outrageous Roger Federer got to be a father without having to be pregnant.

Someone should do something.

😅

Don’t push it too far Malaga that’s the sort of good intention that leads to a Hell of surrogacy farms, lab based artificial wombs and uterus transplants for men.

Signalbox · 02/10/2022 14:17

Who is forcing her?

TheClogLady · 02/10/2022 14:20

Charles Darwin and Old Father Time?

ancientgran · 02/10/2022 14:42

Frezia · 02/10/2022 13:41

*Serena could easily have afforded to pay for ‘social surrogacy’, sadly not an unusual practice amongst super wealthy/celebrity Americans in Serena’s circle.

That she didn’t do that and instead talked about the difficulties of juggling competition, training and motherhood makes her an even more admirable sports professional, to my mind.*

Exactly. She's sacrificed her career rather than rent another woman's body, this alone makes me respect her immensely, let alone all her accomplishments.

How has she sacrificed her career. I think she's great but the reality is she isn't as good as she was and age has caught up with her, like Federer it was the time.

SlagathaChristie · 02/10/2022 14:48

Weird that you're angry about a woman choosing to have children. Also, "children wrecked my career" - what a horrible way to talk about the children you created.

SlagathaChristie · 02/10/2022 14:52

MalagaNights · 02/10/2022 13:26

It's outrageous Roger Federer got to be a father without having to be pregnant.

Someone should do something.

I heard he can even pee standing up without having to buy a she-wee! So unfair! 😤

NC12345665 · 02/10/2022 15:53

Children have wrecked my career

Maybe you shouldn't have had multiple children then.

Original poster
ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 15:55

Thank you all for your comments. I've forgotten how honest a debate can be and how refreshing it is to be told you're wrong and talking fucking nonsense.

It struck me that all the discussion about MTF transition is about the denial of biology....and yet, real women, however talented, inspirational, rich or famous, can't deny their biology. Serena simply could not be pregnant AND a top women's tennis player.

If we're into denying biology, I wish we could help out women, not just men.

OP posts:
Ponderingwindow · 02/10/2022 16:08

Pregnancy is extremely hard on female bodies. It is going to impact an athlete’s performance during the pregnancy and for at least some time afterward.

I don’t follow sport closely so I don’t know the current rules and practices. Elite sport could accommodate pregnancy/maternity leave and not penalize women in their rankings for taking it. Sponsors could celebrate female athletes as they continue to train while pregnant and breastfeeding. We still can’t change the reality that female athletes are unlikely to be able to perform at the same level while having a baby. This is a case where equality doesn’t mean the same.

Hearthnhome · 02/10/2022 16:34

ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 15:55

Thank you all for your comments. I've forgotten how honest a debate can be and how refreshing it is to be told you're wrong and talking fucking nonsense.

It struck me that all the discussion about MTF transition is about the denial of biology....and yet, real women, however talented, inspirational, rich or famous, can't deny their biology. Serena simply could not be pregnant AND a top women's tennis player.

If we're into denying biology, I wish we could help out women, not just men.

Who is denying biology?

Is this about women in work or gender ideology?

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 02/10/2022 17:55

ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 15:55

Thank you all for your comments. I've forgotten how honest a debate can be and how refreshing it is to be told you're wrong and talking fucking nonsense.

It struck me that all the discussion about MTF transition is about the denial of biology....and yet, real women, however talented, inspirational, rich or famous, can't deny their biology. Serena simply could not be pregnant AND a top women's tennis player.

If we're into denying biology, I wish we could help out women, not just men.

I did think of replying to this but your post makes so little sense I don't know where to start.

ancientgran · 02/10/2022 18:25

ZeldaFighter · 02/10/2022 15:55

Thank you all for your comments. I've forgotten how honest a debate can be and how refreshing it is to be told you're wrong and talking fucking nonsense.

It struck me that all the discussion about MTF transition is about the denial of biology....and yet, real women, however talented, inspirational, rich or famous, can't deny their biology. Serena simply could not be pregnant AND a top women's tennis player.

If we're into denying biology, I wish we could help out women, not just men.

I think it is denying biology to pretend that top tennis players can carry on without age affecting them. She's retiring at what is a normal, maybe a bit later than normal, age for top tennis players.

Personally I find it a bit sad when top athletes don't recognise that it is time to go, actually not just top athletes lots of people hang on to a career when they are past their best.

JaneorEleven · 02/10/2022 18:56

I agree somewhat with your comments OP, I do think it’s harder for women in sports than men, for obvious biological reasons. But she’s also competing against other women who are up against the same biological restraints and timelines, which evens things out.

Serena is amazing, I’ve enjoyed watching her play over the years, and I’m sure her decision was difficult for her, hence the angst. I wish her well.

MalagaNights · 02/10/2022 19:26

This tweet thread made me think of this thread.

twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1576238909042069504?t=QgzKkHfPZfsiu4JlJ_ErRg&s=19

It's the same side of the absurd coin we've reached.
Where just the fact that you have a reality of your biological reproductive role means you should be compensated for that unfairness of that reality.

Not being able to play elite tennis while pregnant. Terrible unfairness and discrimination which should not be tolerated.

Men can't get pregnant. Terrible unfairness and discrimination which should not be tolerated.

MangyInseam · 02/10/2022 20:01

Being a top level professional athelete is not the kind of job that is very compatible with being a hands on parent.

And tbh, being a top level professional athlete in a lot of cases isn't going to be all that compatible with gestating children. Depending on how many she has and how her body responds.

Maybe it's that I have four children of my own, but I think if she wants to be a mum and be hands on, that is a valid choice and worthwhile. SHe is not obligated to play tennis till she drops. This idea that no one should have to make choices like that is just not in touch with reality, IMO.